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Possible explanation for different feel in Q3A and OA?
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:27 pm    Post subject: Possible explanation for different feel in Q3A and OA? Reply with quote

When creating the new gpl-q3a2oa-textures.pk3 texture pack I discovered that OA uses shaders where Q3A just uses just the texture. That caused the texture pack to replace textures in Q3A maps that were not missing. After deleting all textures from the pk3 which had the same name as a OA shader I had the following difference between the old and the new/current texture pack:

Only in textures/base_door: shinymetaldoor.tga
Only in textures/base_door: shinymetaldoor_outside3a2.tga
Only in textures/base_door: shinymetaldoor_outside3glow.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: clang_floor3blava.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: clang_floor3bstairtop2.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: clang_floor_ow2.jpg
Only in textures/base_floor: clangdark.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: clangdark_ow.jpg
Only in textures/base_floor: clangdark_ow2.jpg
Only in textures/base_floor: clangdarkspot.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: clangspot2.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: concretefloor1.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: diamond2c.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: diamond2c_ow.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: metalbridge04dbroke.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: metalbridge04dbroke2.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: metalbridge06.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: proto_grate3.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: proto_grill.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: proto_rustygrate2.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: skylight1.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: skylight1_lm.tga
Only in textures/base_floor: tilefloor7.tga
Only in textures/base_light: ceil1_22a.blend.tga
Only in textures/base_light: ceil1_34.blend.tga
Only in textures/base_light: ceil1_38.blend.tga
Only in textures/base_light: ceil1_38.tga
Only in textures/base_light: ceil1_39.blend.tga
Only in textures/base_light: jaildr1_3.blend.tga
Only in textures/base_light: jaildr1_3.tga
Only in textures/base_light: proto_light.tga
Only in textures/base_light: proto_light2.tga
Only in textures/base_light: proto_lightblue.tga
Only in textures/base_light: proto_lightmap.tga
Only in textures/base_light: proto_lightred.tga
Only in textures/base_light: wsupprt1_12.blend.jpg
Only in textures/base_light: wsupprt1_12.blend.tga
Only in textures/base_light: wsupprt1_12.tga
Only in textures/base_light: xlight5.blend.tga
Only in textures/base_light: xlight5.tga
Only in textures/base_support: basic1_1.tga
Only in textures/base_support: plate2_5.tga
Only in textures/base_trim: dark_tin2.tga
Only in textures/base_trim: dirty_pewter.tga
Only in textures/base_trim: dirty_pewter_big.tga
Only in textures/base_trim: pewter.tga
Only in textures/base_trim: pewter_gold.tga
Only in textures/base_trim: pewter_shiney.tga
Only in textures/base_trim: pewterstep.jpg
Only in textures/base_trim: spidertrim3.tga
Only in textures/base_trim: spidertrim4.tga
Only in textures/base_trim: tinfx.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: atech2_c.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: atech3_a.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: bluemetalsupport2c_1.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: bluemetalsupport2c_1vent.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: bluemetalsupport2eye.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: bluemetalsupport2eyel.jpg
Only in textures/base_wall: bluemetalsupport2fline_glow.jpg
Only in textures/base_wall: bluemetalsupport2fline_glow.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: bluemetalsupport2ftv_glow.jpg
Only in textures/base_wall: chrome_metal.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: comp3.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: comp3c.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: comp3env.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: comp3frame.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: comp3text.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: comp3textb.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: concrete1.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: concrete2.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: concrete_dark.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: concrete_dark2.jpg
Only in textures/base_wall: concreteb2.jpg
Only in textures/base_wall: main_q3abanner.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: metalfloor_wall_10.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: metalfloor_wall_14.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: metalfloor_wall_15.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: patch10_beatup2.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: patch10_beatup4_alpha.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: patch10f.tga
Only in textures/base_wall: rusted.tga
Only in textures/ctf: blue_telep.jpg
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Only in textures/gothic_block: blocks11b.tga
Only in textures/gothic_block: blocks11bbroke.jpg
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Only in textures/gothic_block: blocks15.tga
Only in textures/gothic_block: blocks15_blue.tga
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Only in textures/gothic_block: blocks15_red.tga
Only in textures/gothic_block: blocks15_relief1.jpg
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Only in textures/gothic_block: blocks15cgeomtrn.tga
Only in textures/gothic_block: blocks17.tga
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Only in textures/gothic_block: blocks17g_ow.tga
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Only in textures/gothic_block: blocks17j.jpg
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Only in textures/gothic_block: blocks18b.tga
Only in textures/gothic_block: blocks18c.tga
Only in textures/gothic_block: blocks18c_2.tga
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Only in textures/gothic_block: blocks18cbloodhead.jpg
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Only in textures/gothic_block: killblock_relief1.tga
Only in textures/gothic_block: killblockgeomtrn.tga
Only in textures/gothic_block: wetwallfx.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_button: timbutton.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_ceiling: ceilingtechplain.tga
Only in textures/gothic_ceiling: woodceiling1b_dark.tga
Only in textures/gothic_floor: blocks17floor.tga
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Only in textures/gothic_floor: goopq1metal7_98d.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_floor: largerblock3b.tga
Only in textures/gothic_floor: largerblock3b2.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_floor: largerblock3b3.tga
Only in textures/gothic_floor: largerblock3b3x128.tga
Only in textures/gothic_floor: largerblock3b4.tga
Only in textures/gothic_floor: metalbridge06.tga
Only in textures/gothic_floor: metalbridge06_pent.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_floor: metalbridge06b.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_floor: metalbridge06bbroke.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_floor: metalbridge06broke.tga
Only in textures/gothic_floor: q1metal7_99stair2.tga
Only in textures/gothic_floor: xstepborder3.tga
Only in textures/gothic_floor: xstepborder3_alpha.tga
Only in textures/gothic_floor: xstepborder3brn.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_floor: xstepborder3brn.tga
Only in textures/gothic_floor: xstepborder5.tga
Only in textures/gothic_light: skulllight01.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard08_dblue.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_2.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_blue.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_blue.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_c.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_c.tga
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Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_c2b.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_c2b.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_c3.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_c3.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_e.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_e.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_e2.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_e2.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_f.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_f2.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_f2.tga
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Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_g3.jpg
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Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_h.jpg
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Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_ired.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_ired.tga
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Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_kblue.jpg
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Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_l.tga
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Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_o3.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_o3.tga
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Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_p_shiny.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_red.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_trim: baseboard09_red.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: border7.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: km_arena1tower4.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: km_arena1tower4_a.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: km_arena1tower4_shiny.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: metalbase03a_blocks11b4.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: metaldemonkillblock.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: metalsupport4b.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: metalsupport4g.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: metalsupport4g_1.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: metalsupport4i.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: metalsupport4j.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: metalsupport4small.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: pitted_rust.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: pitted_rust2.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: pitted_rust3.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: pitted_rust3_black.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: pitted_rust3_small.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: pitted_rust_small.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: pitted_rustred.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_trim: pitted_rustred.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: q1metal7_12.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: stucco7bord1.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: wood2.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: wood2b.tga
Only in textures/gothic_trim: zinc.tga
Only in textures/gothic_wall: oct20clava.jpg
Only in textures/gothic_wall: slateroofc.tga
Only in textures/gothic_wall: streetbricks10.tga
Only in textures/liquids: proto_poolpass.jpg
Only in textures/proto2: concrete02.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete02dvt.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete02h.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete03.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete03b.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete03c.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete03c_aqua.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete03c_min.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete03c_rot.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete03c_rot2.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete03c_rot3.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete03c_sku.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete03c_smth.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete03cdirty.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete03dirty.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete04.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete04dvt.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete04edged.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete04rfhp.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete04stair.tga
Only in textures/proto2: concrete04stair2.tga
Only in textures/proto2: marble02.tga
Only in textures/proto2: marble02b.tga
Only in textures/proto2: marble02b_floor.tga
Only in textures/proto2: marble02brikb.tga
Only in textures/proto2: marble02btrim02.tga
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Only in textures/proto2: marble02btrim03_lt.tga
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Only in textures/proto2: marble02pillar.tga
Only in textures/proto2: marble02rtrim02.tga
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Only in textures/proto2: marble_relief.tga
Only in textures/proto2: marbledge01.tga
Only in textures/proto2: metsmall.tga
Only in textures/proto2: metwall.tga
Only in textures/proto2: metwall02.tga
Only in textures/proto2: metwallnubbed.tga
Only in textures/proto2: xmarblestair_01.tga
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Only in textures/sfx: beam.tga
Only in textures/sfx: beam_1.tga
Only in textures/sfx: flame2.jpg
Only in textures/sfx: launchpad_diamond.jpg
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Only in textures/sfx: logo512.tga
Only in textures/sfx: portal_sfx.tga
Only in textures/sfx: portal_sfx1.tga
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Only in textures/sfx: portal_sfx_ring_blue1.tga
Only in textures/sfx: portal_sfx_ring_electric.tga

AFAIK... OA does not have modified qvm's (except for 1 or 2 strings replacing "baseq3" with "baseoa", etc.) so that never was the reason for a different feel...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Possible explanation for different feel in Q3A and OA? Reply with quote

OA uses almost vanilla ioquake3, so it's not much (except the names) that are changed in it, still the mouse latency clumsier and different in OA, and that is not because OA uses heavy shaders, it is something else.

- Carl Sandburg -

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Possible explanation for different feel in Q3A and OA? Reply with quote

Mayb the fact that OA models are smaller than Q3 models correspond to the illusion that OA "feels" a lil' bit faster? (e.g. I was surprised that CPMA felt even faster in OA). Instead of that the pure smoothness and tightness is still on Q3A (oh how can it be? it's just the original game...) So finally one can say that the subjective impression of the gameplay depends on wot u personaly focus on => Playing FFA maps with vq3 feels slower than CPM @ huge CTF Maps (so hey that's a general fact and not a try for an explanation in vain) ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Possible explanation for different feel in Q3A and OA? Reply with quote

When I first played OA, it all looked very 'fat' to me, like the huge railgun, bfg, rocker luncher, ...
after switching several times between OA and Q3 I believe it to be just the optics that cause the impression of the clumsiness of OA defrag times don't differ in OA and Q3, so i never bothered looking into that impression of clumsiness, but I'm curious if there are actual differences...

The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding. (Devil's dictionary)
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Possible explanation for different feel in Q3A and OA? Reply with quote

PopeJo wrote:
When I first played OA, it all looked very 'fat' to me, like the huge railgun, bfg, rocker luncher, ...
after switching several times between OA and Q3 I believe it to be just the optics that cause the impression of the clumsiness of OA

Nothing special with the default fov value of 90. So would be the same in Q3A. Concerning to that: The higher the fov the faster the game feels. That's why CPMA is trimmed for challenge and faster gameplay with a higher set default fov. But yeah it's all in common, changing the feeling though.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Possible explanation for different feel in Q3A and OA? Reply with quote

Yeah there is not much difference. I know what PopeJo ans sXe mean. There is only a coulple of differences I notice..

1) I much prefer the Q3 sounds. They are more snappy such as when you hit someone. You don't get that nice crunching sound when they explode. The rail hum is also very soft and smooth. I compared them both and the ability to locate players on Q3 is much more distinctive. The opponent weapon is much louder and clearer as they approach. On OA your own weapon seems too loud or bassy.

Out of all the weapons I think OA are all better except the saw thing and the lazer shooter.

2) The models are very high textures and so are some other things which don't change when I lower settings. On my own Windows machine Q3 performs much better that OA. This maybe a stupid question but does Q3 use Direct3D and OA uses OpenGL? I have not looked at any of these settings in my display options. On one defrag map I had the lowest quality settings yet could not make this jump at a waterfall thing at the start of a CPM map. I switched to Q3 and don't think I missed it once.

I love OA and Q3, they *do* feel the same. I've even had people play it not knowing what it is and they all say "hey this is q3".

95% of people I play with on q3 won't have heard or know what OA is. I get the urge to play both. Me and moo will be playing on q3 and one of us will always say "OA time?" and switch. As 1.16 players we play the same maps every day, mainly the same 3. You get to know them and can move around fast. The corridors and narrow and there are rarely any parts when you can get shot in the back. I used to think this was a bad thing but now I see why it's like that. You are alway close to an area where you can defend yourself.

I would like to find some nice maps especially for TDM and 1v1. Anyone have any recomendations? :)
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