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Redo OA?
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jackthompson
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

goto freeq3.com/forum/index.php

it's the official q3min forum :)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Hi,

I am glad most people think that using the ioq3 source is a better choice. Even if it means a bit more work (integration of unlagged, freeztag, etc.). I kind of hoped this would be the case.

@jackthompson:

Thanks for the link to the OAX stuff, it will be quite useful.

As Oxdan and Jack pointed out, it would be better if this whole discussion were moved to the freeq3 forum. The main advantage is that freeq3 is public, so the ideas would be exposed to a wider audience. So from now on I will post my stuff on the freeq3 forum, if you don't mind. But let me make a positive post here for the last time :)

The next version (0.6.5) is ready for download from the Q3MIN WEB site. I have made the following changes:

1. The engine is now based on the ioquake3 sources (version 1.36 revision 1582, the latest available from their SVN). I had to correct two nasty bugs, but now it works fine. I was able to port the previous changes w/o problems.

2. A weapon dropped by a killed player now contains only the actual amount of ammo the player had at that point (not the max as in the original game).

3. A new client command 'drop N' has been added. This will make you drop weapon 'N' (use the standard weapon numbers). The dropped weapon will contain the actual amount of ammo you have at that point. You can pick the dropped weapon up again. Weapon dropping also works in FFA game mode (can you guess how this feature could be used in FFA games?). Limitations:

- you cannot drop your current weapon
- you cannot drop an empty weapon (no ammo)
- the weapon cannot be picked up for about 0.4 seconds after dropping (for technical reasons)
- the dropped weapon will disappear after 30 seconds

4. Rocket speed is increased to 1000 from the original 900. Let me know if you want more speed... :)

5. Fast weapon switching (I mentioned it a few days ago) has been added as a server side option. It is controlled by the Cvar called sv_fastWeaponSwitch (default is zero, i.e. normal switching speed).

6. Railgun damage has been reduced to 80 per hit as suggested.

BTW, this last change is a bit controversial to me. The high damage value of RG was in the original game compensated by the fact that you had to wait 1.5 seconds between shots. So if we reduce damage, we should probably also decrease the delay between the shots. Opinions?

This railgun issue reminds me that I could probably add locational damage so that we can have headshots like in UT (it's kind of cool :) ). What do you think?

Speaker

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pulchr
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

very nice work speaker!

i've never thought about weapon dropping in ffa - can lead to some pretty nice traps :D

but - i think that two drop commands are enough. "/dropweapon" and "/dropflag". if you want to drop your rocket launcher - you will have to select it first - just fair imo - it takes time and this way we won't have to keep separate binds for each weapon you want to drop.

i'll head over to the freeq3 and make me an account.

this thread delivers ;)

edit: it was possible to drop weapons in rtcw and in the demo a dropped weapon was always reloaded when picked up again. this lead to players dropping the weapons in front of them and running over them before the weapon even hit the ground. cause it was quicker than actually reloading the weapon. this was corrected in an update for the retail version. but i think that the demo still has this 'bug'.

with my suggestion of dropping the carried weapon - some sort of limitation would have to be implemented so that you cannot drop a gun pick it up immediately and have it ready to fire. the railgun and all weapons with longer reload times comes to mind.

edit 2: the best solution is probably to hinder the weapon drop until the weapon has been reloaded. should solve it?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Quote::

i think that two drop commands are enough. "/dropweapon" and "/dropflag". if you want to drop your rocket launcher - you will have to select it first - just fair imo - it takes time and this way we won't have to keep separate binds for each weapon you want to drop.

Well, it was easier this way (and more flexible IMO). The technical problem is that if the player drops the current weapon, then another one must be selected and the code has to deal with all kind of nasty and complicated things like model (torso) animation, etc. I will look into the technical side of this, but cannot promise anything right now :(

It was already quite hard to prevent the player from immediately picking up the dropped weapon (because it was spawned within the pickup radius of the player).

Quote::

i'll head over to the freeq3 and make me an account.

See you there!

EDIT:
Quote::

with my suggestion of dropping the carried weapon - some sort of limitation would have to be implemented so that you cannot drop a gun pick it up immediately and have it ready to fire. the railgun a

Hey, a good point (I missed that). Would it help if the weapon were not available for pickup for about 1 second? (now it is just 400 msec, the shortest time I found that still prevents re-picking by the dropper). It is easy to change this.

Speaker

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Falkland
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

There's still no linux bin client ... is it possible to have an updated sources so I can build it ( the latest sources are still those based on ioq3 rev 1498 ) ?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Falkland wrote:
There's still no linux bin client ... is it possible to have an updated sources so I can build it ( the latest sources are still those based on ioq3 rev 1498 ) ?

Definitely. I will upload the latest sources to freeq3. I would appreciate if you could compile a Linux native client (I have no desire to try). Don't you want to be the maintainer of the Linux client by chance? Just tell me and I will appoint you to this mighty position... :)

Speaker

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pulchr
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Speaker wrote:

Hey, a good point (I missed that). Would it help if the weapon were not available for pickup for about 1 second? (now it is just 400 msec, the shortest time I found that still prevents re-picking by the dropper). It is easy to change this.

Speaker

see my "edit 2" above - should work i hope :)

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chiquita
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

I agree with Speaker. Contributers should be rewarded as specialists and be a main contact for such areas of interest.

I just hope the admins know how to arrange it all :rotfl:
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Hi,

The next version of Q3MIN (0.6.6) is ready. For details see the forum on 'freeq3.com'.

@Falkland:
I have also uploaded the latest source code of Q3MIN so that you can make and test a Linux client. Download here:

freeq3.com/data/q3m-sr...-08-07.zip

Note: When I compile the stuff under Linux (Zenwalk 5.2, a Slackware clone) the VM assembler gives lots of errors complaining about bad code in '#ifdef ... #endif' constructs. Luckily (not for you :) ) I needed only the dedicated server EXE so I did not have to bother finding the cause. It may be the ^M (CR) characters left in the source by the Win32 editor (I remember that I had to use the 'dos2unix' utility on some files before I was able to compile them). Anyway, there are much fewer of these #ifdefs now, because the missionpack code has been purged from the source.

BTW, you should also register at 'freeq3'. Most of the info on Q3MIN is posted there nowadays.

Speaker

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Falkland
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Speaker wrote:
Hi,

The next version of Q3MIN (0.6.6) is ready. For details see the forum on 'freeq3.com'.

@Falkland:
I have also uploaded the latest source code of Q3MIN so that you can make and test a Linux client. Download here:

freeq3.com/data/q3m-sr...-08-07.zip

Note: When I compile the stuff under Linux (Zenwalk 5.2, a Slackware clone) the VM assembler gives lots of errors complaining about bad code in '#ifdef ... #endif' constructs. Luckily (not for you :) ) I needed only the dedicated server EXE so I did not have to bother finding the cause. It may be the ^M (CR) characters left in the source by the Win32 editor (I remember that I had to use the 'dos2unix' utility on some files before I was able to compile them). Anyway, there are much fewer of these #ifdefs now, because the missionpack code has been purged from the source.

BTW, you should also register at 'freeq3'. Most of the info on Q3MIN is posted there nowadays.

Speaker

thanks a lot for the updated sources :)

Anyway , if the problem is only the CRLF/LF conversion , it's not a problem :)

I found a magic tool :D -> swissfileknife.sourceforge.net/

if the problem is caused by other kind of errors , maybe debug could be easier while building the VM as shared libraries , because compiler error messages could be much more explicative than VM assembler ones :)

EDIT : I was able to build VM as shared libraries , so there's not any problem in the code.

EDIT2 : added the 32 bit linux client ( built on Ubuntu 8.04.3 , gcc-4.2 , glibc-2.7... with the default OPTIMIZE flags )
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Falkland
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

I've tried it a bit ... I've played a couples of matches against one bot at nightmare level and I've seen for the first time stable 125 fps on aggressor :O) ... really IMPRESSIVE, also because I played with OpenAL enabled :O)

One thing : when I start a SP game I see only a rectangle without the SS of the expected map ( aggressor ? ) ... and if I select the rectangle , it says : " Can't find map maps/.bsp "
Anyway , no problem if I load the map with the /map aggressor command .

Is this related to the mex I see while the game is loading ? ( file not found: scripts/arenas.txt )
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pulchr
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Falkland wrote:
One thing : when I start a SP game I see only a rectangle without the SS of the expected map ( aggressor ? ) ... and if I select the rectangle , it says : " Can't find map maps/.bsp "
Anyway , no problem if I load the map with the /map aggressor command .

Is this related to the mex I see while the game is loading ? ( file not found: scripts/arenas.txt )

that is probably the cause of that error since the arenas.txt file contains the levels that the game knows about. you should be able to just take the ordinary openarena arenas.txt and strip out everything except the aggressor info. there has been a problem with q3 not being able to show some levels unless the total amount is divisible by four. not sure if q3min has that sorted yet though (i think that limit was removed in openarena).

edit: blargh..

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Hi,

Quote::

thanks a lot for the updated sources :)

You are welcome! Actually, there is an even newer version that has the 'unlagged' code ported. I will soon update the source code archive. I will let you know.

Quote::

if the problem is caused by other kind of errors , maybe debug could be easier while building the VM as shared libraries , because compiler error messages could be much more explicative than VM assembler ones :)

Well, so far I could manage debugging by the use of a couple of 'trap_Print' statements at strategic points. :) BTW, it seems to me that the VMs build a lot faster than shared libs. A definite advantage when you must do compile / test/ edit for maybe a dozen times (per bug :( ).

Quote::

EDIT : I was able to build VM as shared libraries , so there's not any problem in the code.

That's good news, but we still need the VMs as 'qvm' for compatibility.

Quote::

EDIT2 : added the 32 bit linux client ( built on Ubuntu 8.04.3 , gcc-4.2 , glibc-2.7... with the default OPTIMIZE flags )

Good job! Is it set up for loading 'qvm' modules? If yes, I will add it to the standard Q3MIN package (because then it will be able to use the qvm modules created under Win32).

Speaker

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

pulchr wrote:

that is probably the cause of that error since the arenas.txt file contains the levels that the game knows about. you should be able to just take the ordinary openarena arenas.txt and strip out everything except the aggressor info. there has been a problem with q3 not being able to show some levels unless the total amount is divisible by four. not sure if q3min has that sorted yet though (i think that limit was removed in openarena).

Well, 'arenas.txt' is indeed missing. I found it somewhat hard (say impossible? :) ) to create several tiers of single player matches when the whole package contains a single map (just for a quick run by a new user, to decide if he/she really wants the game). I will think about adding a menu item to launch a single player game on this map with automatically added bot(s).

Q3MIN's emphasis is on net play using custom maps downloaded when needed. We may even decide at one point to completely remove the single player option from the menu. I would say good riddance...

Speaker

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:08 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Speaker wrote:

Good job! Is it set up for loading 'qvm' modules? If yes, I will add it to the standard Q3MIN package (because then it will be able to use the qvm modules created under Win32).

Of course yes :) I just compiled the code without touching anything in the code itself :)

And then there's no need to touch the engine , because the shared libraries are loaded if the following 3 cvars are set to zero in the config :

This is the default configuration to load the VM as the qvm files :

Code::
seta vm_cgame "2"
seta vm_game "2"
seta vm_ui "2"

while if u set to zero , the engine will try to load VM as shared libraries ( if they exist ) : they have to be placed into baseq3 ( for baseq3 game , for another mod they need to be placed in the mod dir )

Code::
seta vm_cgame "0"
seta vm_game "0"
seta vm_ui "0"

If there are not any shared libraries , the engine will fall back to the default behaviour and it will load qvm.
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