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The golden pot › RAINBOW NETWORKS › Defrag tricks & tutorials › Defrag Tricks and FAQ
Defrag Tricks and FAQ
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W1ZrD
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Defrag Tricks and FAQ Reply with quote

Chic, that is actually something that we have been talking about trying to do, to allow user uploads of demos and then render them viewable on a website with recordlistings, youtube style.
Don't know technically how this would be possible yet but all info in regards would really be appreciated.

I honestly think that a record data-base with viewable videos would inspire more people to beat times/get ideas/find alternative ways..

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Defrag Tricks and FAQ Reply with quote

Yes its possible, I can do it and have all the resources required to do so.

The first possibility is running a live stream with much better quality than youtube. But.. there is one small catch. Some kind soul would have to set up a system and have quake running watching a live server. The screen display would be small as you would see it live on the web, they would also need to be spectating, as the stream shows the users display, just like a webcam. They send the data to the media server and the media server is able to send it out from a hosted server on a good network. The would also need to confgure it so that it's not using all the resources that arent required (such as fps and optimum network settings as you still need some bandwidth to send the stream.


The first w3sp one was actually a direct stream from a demo to the www and you can see the quality is excellent, thats why there is a few glitches in it. With files you can download them progressively but for live streams it will be less quality because its streaming directly so you cant really go back and replay it :D

For the person who is sending the stream, it's simple. They just download a driver which allows a window (I use 400 x 300 in desktop mode) to be selected as the display, similar to a web cam. This is done by a couple of clicks of the mouse. They then open a webpage which will display the stream and the web page also sends the data live to the streaming server.
When they want to stop the stream they just close the browser or click on the controls on the web page.

To do a bunch of files that is something im not familiar with as someone would need to allow an upload area for demos and figure out how to play them automatically. I guess the live streaming might not be needed so you could even use something like VLC to trascode and compress each demo as they are played. hmm.. theres a program for windows called winscheduler or something.. that can automate tasks to do this. I dont know if this sounds confusing but its not really difficult... the only part I would struggle with is running quake to play a demo without doing so manually so it would require a few people to take care of what they know best to automate it as much as possible. Might take a few days to set up and work out the best way but I agree, it would be a really nice to have something like this set up.
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W1ZrD
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Defrag Tricks and FAQ Reply with quote

It would be nice to have your .dm_68 file sent to a standard server through a normal web-form upload, then that the .dm_68 is queued over to a media-server for rendering to a .mov/.avi (or whatever), transcoded to set bitrate/resolution and then sent back to the standard server as a video file. Then it gets listed with (for instance) best defrag cpm/vq3 time in a high-score list, sorted with best times/players, and a button to click in order to view the demo itself as a video, another link to download the actual .dm_68 and possibly a third link to view all the players runs (or so..)

That is roughly how it would work I assume, but I don't know which media-server would be capable of doing this queued on-demand rendering.

I really believe that this is worth investigating further as it would boost defrag community in doing so.

(I should bother pan, he knows everything) :)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: Defrag Tricks and FAQ Reply with quote

Yeah, thats the same thing I was thinking. i already have custom software. I will pm details and you can check it out. The media server is Flash (FMS Flash Multimedia Server)

So you have lots of flash apps which you can record / stream or convert, there are many free ones.

There is a file on the media server which can connect to a remote mysql database and update it, so its easy to manage a list of all the jobs it has processed.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: Defrag Tricks and FAQ Reply with quote

Ah, but that would required the entire server to run as a Windows server then :s I'll see if I can find a similar alternative for Linux since we don't have any Windows servers :O

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:21 am    Post subject: Re: Defrag Tricks and FAQ Reply with quote

No it runs on Linux.. You can even use a developers verion for free and get a limited number of connections.

I have a live game runnng on q3eu.com right now. If its gone then it means ive switched it off and went to bed D:


Its crap quality cos of my connection, and im doing some stuff for work, it will probably show poor fps but it really needs two ppl to test as I want my network to be able to run the stream as smooth as possible and not access an sites :/


edit : i took it offline cos quake in small window mode is using 98% of cpu and the browser needs some cpu too as it also shows you a preview of whats being streamed. When I played a video it worked perfectly.

So 1 thing that is required is a config which has settings to limit all the use of the system resources. I dont know if running it in window mode is worse than full screen for the cpu. When my admin done it he used a virtual private network and port for it so there was a direct connection. If you have a server and can install FMS then it would be perfect. My flash server has loads of websites hosted on it but havent had any problems with it.

So just to make it clear, the code for uploading the files will be on the web server, the file needs to be played and streamed playing through quake and this stream is sent to the media server to be brodcasted or saved/coded. The web server only needs a few files and does not need to be on the same system as the media server. The media server has a config file and script so it can communicate with the code on the webserver and pass data/info.

A demo file only contains game based data without graphics so thats why you need to capture the output from a system running q3.

I along with my admin are cool with the media server and coding. Uploading a demo file is simple enough so that just leaves how to work out how to play a demo through quake after its uploaded. The streaming is quite clever as it is able to detect motion and can be configured to start processing the stream when the demo is played. Playing a stream is much easier I guess, but i'm sure just by simply setting up a single system that can play demos makes it possible for anyone to upload a demo file and it can be saved as flash or even a wmv file. Especially considering how much time is spent by lots of people doing it manually and it's not that easy to figure out or know how to get good quality
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:25 am    Post subject: Re: Defrag Tricks and FAQ Reply with quote

W1ZrD wrote:
It would be nice to have your .dm_68 file sent to a standard server through a normal web-form upload, then that the .dm_68 is queued over to a media-server for rendering to a .mov/.avi (or whatever), transcoded to set bitrate/resolution and then sent back to the standard server as a video file. Then it gets listed with (for instance) best defrag cpm/vq3 time in a high-score list, sorted with best times/players, and a button to click in order to view the demo itself as a video, another link to download the actual .dm_68 and possibly a third link to view all the players runs (or so..)

That is roughly how it would work I assume, but I don't know which media-server would be capable of doing this queued on-demand rendering.

I really believe that this is worth investigating further as it would boost defrag community in doing so.

(I should bother pan, he knows everything) :)

Well as far as getting the demo file from OpenArena to a video file goes, you can record a video of a demo in-game like so:

Code::
// If it's going to be flash video anyway we don't need to record with very high resolution
r_mode -1 // Use custom screen resolution
r_customWidth 320 // Set the screen width
r_customHeight 240 // Set the screen height

// The settings for the recorded video
cl_aviMotionJpeg [0/1] // If 1 then encode the recorded video with the MJPEG codec, otherwise save uncompressed video (highest quality)
cl_aviFrameRate // The frame rate for the video, default is 25

// The commands to record the video itself
demo my_super_frags ; video // This will play the demo and record a video of it.  You need to chain the demo then video commands to capture the entire demo.

(Information obtained from here: ioquake3.org/help/)

As for transcoding, you can use a bash script or something to run OpenArena then FFmpeg on the raw video to get a more reasonable file size then FTP it onto the media server.

edit:
chiquita wrote:
Especially considering how much time is spent by lots of people doing it manually and it's not that easy to figure out or know how to get good quality
Well there are some settings for high graphics quality furver.no-ip.org/rainb...&t=129

The only problem with the method described here is that it doesn't record sound. The way I get around this is by playing back the demo again and recording the sound from another PC using a line-in cable then editing it in Audacity but that might not be possible if this is supposed to be automated.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: Defrag Tricks and FAQ Reply with quote

yea.. that helps alot. This way you can even bypass the media server and use vlc www.videolan.org/vlc/features.html which can be run from a command line on the same server which will process the raw video into any format you want.

The video files will probably be huge so you would just have a config file for vlc to specify the same output for every demo uploaded then delete the large file once processsed.

I think the only benefit of the media server is that it anyone can stream live to the server and also output the stream live but if a video can be recorded using the method above then you wont need to stream it since a program like vlc can convert a raw file it into a directory.

It might take time for it to process but you could even use the gui version of vlc and try it to see what works best. I think you can simply use the wizard and specifiy the input file and the output file, it also display the command you would use if runing it as a script. So instead of streaming the input file you just transcode it and save it as a file. Might make more sense looking at the options here, but you can use the vlc command as an executable file in a script as well as a gui..

www.videolan.org/doc/s...l#id289215
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W1ZrD
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Defrag Tricks and FAQ Reply with quote

The problem with the embedded /video function in ioq3 is that there needs to be a client running to record the sound. I made a few easy tricks, recorded with ioq3's own recording function, and by using OpenAL. That way you get sound, but it's not the best of qualities.

What I would want though, is for players to upload their .dm_68 files themselves and the server should take care of the rest, maybe VLC would do the trick; I'll take a look.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Defrag Tricks and FAQ Reply with quote

This stuff was bursting my head but after a break I looked at it again and there was one thing which sort all the issues out and that was to turn off all game acceleration crap, think it was r_ignorehwgamma or something. I dont know if some ppl have problems when they are watching a minimised screen and changing and graphics controls affects the desktop and not the game.

I done a live capture of the screen and passed a directdisplay output to the media server. Got a streams linky This was using a medium graphics set up for the actual game demo, and a high quality output at the flash encoding part.

They are progressive streams and do not play well on my 0.5mb piece of crap but you can drag the bar back and watch it as it downloads more. I can also have them downloadable but wanted to see if anyone has any opinion on the quality or whatever. The two OA ones are between 10 and 20mb .. but they can be smaller or bigger as options.

And no laughing at my crappy shots.. it was my first time :D

edit: the sound is low in one of them whic was just my volume control on recording :D
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:33 am    Post subject: Re: Defrag Tricks and FAQ Reply with quote

I like the quality, no doubt. What size are those vids?
It did look to me like it all went in slow-motion though, was it recorded that way?

Nothing wrong about your shots :)

A side-note, you can turn off the massive rainbow-colour explosion thingy in the menu, just press ESCAPE -> Client Options -> Explosions / 3D Trail

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:45 am    Post subject: Re: Defrag Tricks and FAQ Reply with quote

yea ive done all that now :D

The first part of one of the demos was timescaled to 0.7 to see what the fps looked like. When it's normal its more than enough.. i think its at 24.
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