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The golden pot › RAINBOW NETWORKS › Main › The world championship of referees mistakes
The world championship of referees mistakes
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Falkland
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:28 pm    Post subject: The world championship of referees mistakes Reply with quote

- France team got qualified thanks to a goal against Ireland in which the ball was literaly driven by "The Hand of Henry"
- The goal of the 2-2 for Italy against Slovakia wasn't in offside
- The valid goal of the 2-2 for England was denied
- The first goal of Argentina against Mexico was offside ( and the group of the three referees responsable of this mistake were already sent back home - yes they are italians )
- The goal of the victory of Spain against Portugal was offside of 45 cm.


PS : I was the first here saying Italy would not have been a protagonist of this WC and I was right because of many mistakes of our couch whom wrongly insisted to let playing almost the components of the old ( in age too ) world champion team and causing our team playing like cows without beeing concrete at all... so stay tuned to the evidence.
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kernel_panic
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:32 pm    Post subject: Re: The world championship of referees mistakes Reply with quote

1. Referee mistakes are part of the game. Stop whining.
2. Get your facts right. Spanish goal wasn't offside.

At least, you didn't say the red car was unfair, as I've heard somewhere.

\o/

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Falkland
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: The world championship of referees mistakes Reply with quote

kernel_panic wrote:
1. Referee mistakes are part of the game. Stop whining.
2. Get your facts right. Spanish goal wasn't offside.

At least, you didn't say the red car was unfair, as I've heard somewhere.

1. Referee mistakes will not be part of the game in the next WC ... for sure
2. The goal was in fact outside of 45 cm because the player in the middle touched the ball , but I'm sooooo far to say that Spain didn't deserve the access to 1/4

I don't know exactly what you mean about the red car.
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kernel_panic
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: The world championship of referees mistakes Reply with quote

I downloaded the highest definition video I found in youtube, converted it to png images and loaded the sequence in Inskape to draw the perspective lines. As it is difficult to know when Xavi kicks the ball, I couldn't decide whether it was out or not.

But I'm a fair guy. Later I found this:



So yes, Villa is offside by 22 cm. However, it took these guys a computer running the Matrix to determine so. It is absolutely impossible for the line assistant to decide it in real time, even though he was well positioned. As you know, in case of doubt the flag stays down, so I honestly think the goal is valid. It's not like he made a mistake: he couldn't possibly tell and acted according to the rules.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:22 pm    Post subject: Re: The world championship of referees mistakes Reply with quote

Not that i'd care THAT much about all that stuff, but... during the match UK vs germany referees claimed not to see a goal that was over half a meter inside.

If you'd ask me, i'd guess many of them are taking bribes to influence matches' outcoumes, to finance their decadent lifestyle: crocodile shoes & golden bathroomfloors

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Falkland
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: The world championship of referees mistakes Reply with quote

kernel_panic wrote:
[..]
It is absolutely impossible for the line assistant to decide it in real time, even though he was well positioned. As you know, in case of doubt the flag stays down, so I honestly think the goal is valid. It's not like he made a mistake: he couldn't possibly tell and acted according to the rules.

I do not agree ... it was a mistake indeed : the same situation happened with the goal of the 2-2 for Italy against Slovakia , but inverted : the goal was valid but the assistant had no doubt it was offside instead.

I think they will use instant replay for the next championship to correctly judge those and other kind of situations , like it is now for the rugby.
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kernel_panic
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: The world championship of referees mistakes Reply with quote

Falkland wrote:
I do not agree ... it was a mistake indeed

No, it was not, unless you think he could possibly tell whether the player was offside. Let's suppose the 3D video reflects accurately the actual events--I just say this because I don't know how reliable it is. Do you claim that the line assistant could see those 22 cm of Villa's body (not counting the arms) ahead of the defender's (not counting the arms) given that the defender was closer to him? For me, it is simply impossible from his position. If you accept this, you have to apply the rule 'in case of doubt', which is what he correctly did.

Joki wrote:
during the match UK vs germany referees claimed not to see a goal that was over half a meter inside.

I watched that match, and until I saw the replay I didn't know whether the ball bounced inside or not. We are talking about super fast actions, this stuff happens regularly. Good thing that Germany scored 4 so the whining is somehow reduced in the media over here.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: The world championship of referees mistakes Reply with quote

kernel_panic wrote:

No, it was not, unless you think he could possibly tell whether the player was offside. Let's suppose the 3D video reflects accurately the actual events--I just say this because I don't know how reliable it is. Do you claim that the line assistant could see those 22 cm of Villa's body (not counting the arms) ahead of the defender's (not counting the arms) given that the defender was closer to him? For me, it is simply impossible from his position. If you accept this, you have to apply the rule 'in case of doubt', which is what he correctly did.

He was not correct ... he was DISCRETIONALY correct : I mean the decision is valid but the goal was DECLARED valid because of not much more than a personal opinion.

Quite every important sports uses instant-replays for those doubtfull situations : tennis , rugby , volley , basket ... it's not the time anymore to not adopt a technological solution in the football too.

Joki wrote:
during the match UK vs germany referees claimed not to see a goal that was over half a meter inside.

The same , identical action also for the side happened few years ago in the italian championship in a match between Chievo Verona vs Juventus.

Should I say that it was not a surprise for a single italian that saw the scene ?

Joki wrote:

If you'd ask me, i'd guess many of them are taking bribes to influence matches' outcoumes, to finance their decadent lifestyle: crocodile shoes & golden bathroomfloors

Well , the italian federation had to introduce a rule to stop clubs giving X-mas presents to the referee association after they've discovered that in a season of the end of the 90s , ROMA Ac club gave them a full set of true Rolex clocks.

Believe me ... In Italy we've seen all kind of effects of the "obscure side of the football" and I am quite sure they will adopt instant replays to give back a bit of credibility to football matches.

Do you want to know more ?

Italy victory in the WC of the 2006 wasn't enough to invert the tendence of losting interest in the football ; it continued ( less people in the stadia , less pay per view subscription ) and it is apparently unstoppable. It never happened before , neither in the worst economic crisis of the 70s or of the early 90s. And quite every italian knows that the presence of a single famous player in the national team is often driven by one or more fucking sponsors and that football is nothing more than a big show now.

I hope they will give back us the TRUE football.
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Joki
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: The world championship of referees mistakes Reply with quote

kernel_panic wrote:
I watched that match, and until I saw the replay I didn't know whether the ball bounced inside or not.

too obvious

Almost half a meter and IMPOSSIBLE not to see for the assistant-referees.

But you are probably right, it must have been like THIS.

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chiquita
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: The world championship of referees mistakes Reply with quote

The ref mistakes are part of the game as well as the player mistakes.

If no mistakes were allowed then THAT plastic trumpet thing would be snapped in half on entrance!

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Falkland
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:09 am    Post subject: Re: The world championship of referees mistakes Reply with quote

chiquita wrote:
The ref mistakes are part of the game as well as the player mistakes.

Ref don't play , but they can decide the final result of a match ... which kind of criteria do they use in judgement ?

How many players just search for a penalty more or less fraudolently in a match instead of PLAYING ?
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SnooSnoo
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: The world championship of referees mistakes Reply with quote

I agree people make mistakes, but, players making mistakes IS fair, while refs making them is NOT. So, figuring out a way to minimise ref mistakes adds to the fairness. imho.

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HoaX
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: The world championship of referees mistakes Reply with quote

indeed players mistakes are normal.
Goalcam like in icehockey is needed
Offsideline-cam : (camera on tracks the entire lenght of the pitch) is needed so the line refs can concentrate more on fauls made on other players.
Not needing to chase the last man in the game all the time just for the offside rule.
Its a dumb inefficient way using your assets like they do now anyway.

But most important is to consultation when using video or other means enfoceing the rules before making a decision.

Jack can write the program for the offside-bot xD

Anyway Holland,Germany, Spain and Uruguay are in the semi finals xD
May thge best dutch team win xD
HOLLAND!!!

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