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The golden pot › DEV › Maps, Models and Mods › Redo OA?
Redo OA?
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Well first off.. I probably shouldn't have spoken about the weapon thing after realizing earlier how shit I am :) I've been a TDM freeze rail insta player (most servers lie on protocol 43 v1.16 noghost). It's probably quite different from weapon games as it relies mainly on sound, and movement (for example you often walk to find enemies.

I know that the noghost mod has been in dev since 2002 and is still being developed. So I guess if I was running servers I would use the xbattle mod.. and seeing the pm skins are already in the game there would only be a small download for the client side code. xbattle also accomodates cpma style and osp but noone really connected to the servers, mainly due to the amount of new players and people who dont know about allowing download.

I do think what has been done is great so far, the game loads instantly and everything is much quicker than OA but there has yet to be a server in place.

IMO other mods will obviosly be compatible too... so it would be interesting to see how they run, but obviously would need some players to give it a test out and see how it goes?

I think with all the requests and all the mods that have been in development in the past could mean you might end up with a list that you would need magic dust to fit it all in :)
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Hi,

OK, maybe this weapon selection scheme is not the greatest invention made in Q3A. To me it seemed a good idea, so I just did it. BTW, previously I posted a list of what I wanted to add and nobody had any comments about it.

So, why don't YOU tell me what to implement? I am still waiting for useful input from all the 'experts' who posted different wish lists here. Anyway, the game pack & code is there. Why don't you go ahead and contribute something that you think is great?

Speaker

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Quote::
The weapons selection is pretty neat, though I see it better suited in slower fps's like UrT or cs. Most players I know have and need each weapon bound to one key.

Yeah. This is neat but not very useful, really. When you want a weapon you want that--and only that--weapon. It's not that anything will do. OK, sometimes I press the wrong key and yet I get a frag, but most times I press the wrong key I get badly fragged--and my neighbours end up knowing about it. Now, imagine that as "a feature".

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Hi,

I finally managed to upload the latest version (0.6.4) and restored the download link on 'freeq3.com'. Please, download, test & evaluate this version if you have a little spare time.

I have tested the Linux server and it seems to work (at least I could join the server on my LAN and the game ran OK).

Speaker

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chiquita
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 5:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Yea, I just realised also that maybe speaker is used to organised games where people turn up at arranged games. But on public servers you could be amongst anyone from complete beginners to really good players. It's not easy to find a balance, but as long as there's lots of action and your not spending half the time looking for someone to hit then that's called fun :)

For example, there are some big maps which I just couldnt put on the server because the server usually starts with 2 players joining... a few mins later more people might arrive or they might not.
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SnooSnoo
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Uh, jacky had a frantic server with 10 frags limit. Most games ended in less than 1 min provided nuff players. It was actualy pretty damn cool.

The weapons selection is pretty neat, though I see it better suited in slower fps's like UrT or cs. Most players I know have and need each weapon bound to one key.

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chiquita
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

And another point... I dont use q3dm1 (smallest map is q3dm5) and its not because it's crammed full of players that a game can last a minute. It's usually the skill of a good player that can end a game within one minute. It doesnt happen often but when it does it's always noted by the winning player at end of match (although I assume a 1 min finish time could be 1 min 50 secs). Typically a game will last 3 or 4 mins.

maybe i'm too noob for a really skilled game but for sure I'm not alone :/
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Speaker wrote:
Hi,

With all due respect, you are crazy if you run or play on such servers. How can a game last only 1 minute? q3dm1 with 16 players or what? Or a frag limit of 2? Don't tell me that this is typical.

Anyway, in this situation fast selection of a certain type of weapon by a single key press may even be more useful.

Speaker

Well you can see from the stats which were reset 4 days ago that it's fairly popular
q3eu.com/site/vsp/pub/...lweaps.php

The fraglimit is 20.. the max players is 10. The weapon respawns every 2 seconds so it means everyone has a fair chance of getting a weapon and playing to their potential. We have had discussions about map rotations and increasing fraglimit but some people dont like some maps so it's just really a game of skill to reach 20 in the fastest time possible :) But I am not a very good player, it would be even worse for me if I had to wait for weapons and such... also everyone starts with a teleporter so they can have one chance of escaping an unlucky spawn and is great for a second chance if you get thrown over the void on dm17 (which can make the game last longer)...

But another consideration is the amount of players and size of map... 2 or 3 players on one map can last maybe 4 or 5 mins... so I can't control the number or quality of players who are on the server at the same time. 10 players may sound excess but it's not often there are that amount of players. It's also difficult to keep everyone happy. If someone doesnt like a map they might sit out, then join next game.. but if the fraglimit is higher they may well just leave. Anyway, it's fun either way, even if there's 2 or 10 players :) I often end up with 2 frags when really good players are playing. But if the fraglimit is higher then there's a greater divide between the better and weaker players.

ps. some of the maps are small, some medium... so thats why a game can be so short... but if its only 2 players then the small maps are more suitable. On 1.16 I only have the choice of the default q3 maps.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Hi,

------------------------
Note: The download of the new version is temporarily broken (I had problems when updating it). It will be fixed in a few hours.
------------------------

@PopeJo:

First of all, if you don't want or like the new selection system, just leave the Cvars at default and you have the original behavior. I am for multiple choices if they ares possible to implement in a reasonable way. If we leave everything as it was then there is no progress. I put in such stuff only if it is client side, is completely optional and must be explicitly selected.

As for what it is good for: You can group similar weapons to the same group and use them in specific situations. An example: LG, PG and SG are in the default group 1. These are all good for close fighting, and do not cause you self damage. So when you suddenly find yourself in a close situation, you just select this group (one key press!) and can be sure that a suitable weapon is brought up. Also if you run out of ammo you can be sure than the game will not automatically select let's say the RL which is dangerous to you at close range, but will try to give you a weapon from the same group.

Also I am not sure what you mean by the MG and GA being default. How are they different from others with respect to weapon selection? You still have to select them explicitly if you want to use them.

I am sure that quite a few players will experiment with this new system and find it useful. I did, that's why I ported the code from my previous mod.

@chiquita:

Quote::

On my FFA server a game can last 1 min and is franticly fast. I use the mouse wheel to change weapon and only recently started using the numbers, and even that is very difficult to remember when you have to think in advance of 0.2 seconds.

With all due respect, you are crazy if you run or play on such servers. How can a game last only 1 minute? q3dm1 with 16 players or what? Or a frag limit of 2? Don't tell me that this is typical.

Anyway, in this situation fast selection of a certain type of weapon by a single key press may even be more useful.

Speaker

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chiquita
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

This is one of the better players on my server. As you can see.. he changes weapons to suit very quickly.

This was just a couple of random games... he might not even be trying or playing good. But what use of weapon grouping could be used in this case, since it's very fast.

clanarena.org/arena/vi...tle_HoOne/

(btw.. there is an option to turn off kill messages so it doesnt show in the console when he kills someone)
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

I also found the gibs folder in the models folder. The names of the files were enough to revolt me from opening them :)
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

I'm totally lost on the weapon change system. On my FFA server a game can last 1 min and is franticly fast. I use the mouse wheel to change weapon and only recently started using the numbers, and even that is very difficult to remember when you have to think in advance of 0.2 seconds. I have weapon switching at 10ms or something, since fast weapon switching is popular. I see people switch from rail to rocket all the time or shotgun to machine gun.. thats something that's difficult to do quickly for alot of players so with the further weapon groups would be even more confusing or difficult to use... unless you had infinite and all ammo... all of the time.

But, i guess it's possible just to ignore these if you dont want to use them? Like I said, in a FFA with 10 players weapon grouping is something my mind wont be calculating when being shot at behind with a machine gun and seeing people fighting in front of me.

Anyway, my weapon changes when i run out of ammo and looking at the amount of ammo is quite enough for my brain than having to think about grouping stuff :) Unless I'm reading it wrong.
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PopeJo
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

no, but I can not test much. I still got the bug in WINE, that my mouse is caught in the small window of the real resolution, thus I cant play fullscreen.

1. BF? i thought bfg has been removed.

2. sry, dont mean to be rude. but, what is the grouping good for? its just 6 weapons, because MG and gauntlet are default, and BFG has been disabled, no?
grouping could be relevant if the time between weapon switch is instant, like in cpm. but with the default setting, weaponswitching is so slow, that shooting your gun empty and not switching before, gets you killed in more then 90% of all cases.

3. sounds: i hear a ticking noise, like a clock, similar to the "bell" hitsound in OA. in teh map ztndm2. but haven't been able to find out what is was. a weapon, a part of the armor?
I definitely need to try some for longer. and this needs more time, so I cant give feedback every 2 days =D

will try the newest verion next.

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Speaker
Happy Camper
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Hi,

The next version (0.6.4) of the Q3MIN distro is ready. It can be downloaded from the project's WEB site freeq3.com (go to Download->Game). The following changes have been implemented in this version:

1. Copied the GPLed map 'aggressor' (and its supporting textures and shaders) from Openarena 0.8.1. Removed the map 'ztn3dm1'. Now all stuff in the Q3MIN archive is strictly GPL.

2. Replaced grenade sounds using stuff provided by Chiquita. It is much better than the original (especially the bounce sound that sounded in OA like when kids kick around an empty tin box).

3. Ported my code for weapon grouping and ranking to Q3MIN (from a previous source mod of mine). Below is a description of how it works.

The order of weapons (i.e. their 'rank') is controlled by a new Cvar called 'cg_weaponRank' (default value is the empty string ""). The default means that the order (ranking) of weapons is the same as in the original game. You may specify a different weapon order by setting this Cvar as follows:

set cg_weaponRank "w1 w2 w3 w4 w5 w6 w7 w8 w9"

where w1, w2, etc. are weapon ID strings from the following sets:

ga mg sg gl rl lg rg pg bf
GA MG SG GL RL LG RG PG BF

There must be exactly nine weapon IDs, one for each weapon. The order of weapons in the game will follow the order in which they appear in the Cvar's string.

The standard weapons available in the game (from gauntlet to BFG) are now divided into weapon groups. There are four groups and there may be up to four weapons in each group. The default grouping is as follows:

Group 1: LG PG SG (close quarter fighting)
Group 2: RG MG LG (middle to long range, instant hit)
Group 3: BF RL GL (explosive projectiles, self-damage)
Group 4: GA (best left alone :))

Four additional Cvars are provided for overriding the default definitions of weapon groups:

cg_weaponGroup1
cg_weaponGroup2
cg_weaponGroup3
cg_weaponGroup4

The default value for these Cvars is the empty string "". You may set any of them in the same way as 'cg_weaponRank' above. For example:

set cg_weaponGroup2 "RL LG SG"

This will redefine weapon group 2 to have the rocket launcher, the lightning gun and the shotgun. You may add up to four weapons to each group, but no group may contain the same weapon twice. Weapons in the groups should be specified in a descending order (most powerful listed first, this is the order of selection within the group). If you set the Cvar to "" then the corresponding weapon group will have the default weapons in it.

The command 'weapon N' has been extended to take advantage of weapon grouping. It accepts arguments in the range 101 to 104. These numbers correspond to the four weapon groups. Passing the number of a weapon group (+ 100) results in the following actions depending on which weapon you currently use:

* if your current weapon is in the requested group, the next available
weapon from the same group is selected

* if your current weapon is from another group, the best weapon available
in the requested group is selected, but if no weapon in that group is
currently available then no change is made

If the ammo of your current weapon runs out, the game tries to select the best available weapon from the same group. If that is not possible, then the best available weapon from the full set is selected.

The working of the commands 'weapnext' and 'weapprev' can also be changed by setting the new Cvar 'cg_newWeaponSelect' to non-zero (default is zero). Zero means that weapon selection works in the same way as in the original Q3A game. A non-zero value causes weapon selection to be changed: the commands do not wrap around (they stop at the respective end of the weapon list) and the gauntlet can also be selected.

BTW, almost no feedback so far. Are you all sleeping? :)

Speaker

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chiquita
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

PopeJo wrote:

5. announcer sounds like duke nukem! yay! :hoho:

just adding that the announcer voice was from 'Ben Drake'... for the credits list. I might have written Ben Clarke by mistake (dunno what made me think of that, must have been watching some crap on tv before sending the file) :ops:
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