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Redo OA?
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

its ok - its fixed..

just do

/com_blood 0

:)

only jk but after i set that at 1 I could see it. god how long did you spend looking for a flaw. I even had to go into rocket mode and use zoom to see the gibs :D

Well I will continue with the textures, that includes improving them if I can. I really like the quick loading so I guess it can't be taking up that much resources.

One thing I would think would be good is to have a seperate pak of maps.. perhaps even popular ones and the old q3 remakes, which would be compatible with the textures. I've downloaded a couple when doing the textures (like overkill for eg) and the files are small since it doesnt need the extra textures.. and then cram a good number of maps into a small file (10mb for ex).

the doc had ones that were really nice on the old osp server.. I think they used mostly the gothic textures but I'm just used to the standard q3 maps. ofc other maps are popular but might contain their own textures which will increase the file size so I guess someone familiar with the custom maps might be able to suggest a few and there could be a mix of popular maps in one small'ish pk3 file?
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Falkland
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:34 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

kernel_panic wrote:

The game most likely sits in the home directory anyway, so it doesn't get wiped out between installs. To put the game in another location _you_ actually have to log in as root to write where you shouldn't. And I don't know about you, but I don't install another OS and/or wipe my HD since...well, since I installed Debian 2 years ago. However, during that time I had to sort out the ~/.oabase directory countless times, struggled to get the right settings with Gtkradiant and even had to write a stupid launch script to avoid overwriting the settings between versions. Thankyouverymuch.

Passing +set fs_homepath "~/.newbaseoa" to the commandline or through a script could help to deal with that. U can use at least one different fs_homepath for every version and/or for Gtkradiant .... or for testing a new version without breaking your old user settings.

kernel_panic wrote:

Heh, I don't know how you sensed it, but I AM considering to get a Mac.

Get it if u can ... u will have less frustration for sure ( and I'm not ironic , sarcastic ... ect ... just get it if u can :) )

U will have a certified UNIX system and a powerfull desktop system :
- www.apple.com/macosx/technology/
- www.unix.org/

Many ppl ignores this but MacOSX is the results of different projects (the kernel is a derivative of Mach 3.0 microkernel and OSF 1.0 system from which has inherited the FreeBSD layer integrated in OSF as a Mach interface ... the windows system is a derivative project of the NextStep, OpenStep commercial projects )

kernel_panic wrote:

It's been 3 years already hearing how things will improve in this respect--i.e., the total time I've been using linux. My card is 5 years old and it works suboptimally--so much so that I installed XP solely to play OA. My laptop's life is approaching its end. Excuse me if I don't hold my breath about anything in this front.

2 things :
- Linux development is slower than Windows development and every development section (kernel, new drivers, base utils , X, x-driver ... ) has a real uniform test only when the single parts are integrated in one or more linux distribution. In few words : the development process suffers of a HIGH fragmentation.
- Windows makes ( or made , since with W7 they seem to break a little this tendency ) hardware too old soon for 2 reason : 1 -> the hardware is used at 120/130 per cent even if the system is doing nothing special. 2 -> for every new release the minimum sys req...s are always doubled or quadrupled .... while with linux ( or with freebsd ,or with any other *NIX development system ) your hardware could have a looooooooonger life and u can run them on a low-end machine without any particular problem.

:harr: :harr: :harr:


Last edited by Falkland on Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Falkland
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

And still about QL : they are focused on their infrastructure , they don't care too much of the quality of the clients but they care for sure of teh quantity of them.

I've "taken" this from a QL developer (TTimo) blog : there are 5 consoles running htop in the remote systems ... if u pay attention at it u can see that every machine is a double quad ( 8 CPU ) and it has 16 GB of RAM

EDIT : argh ... it's too big

EDIT2 : ok ... look at it here -> h t t p : //ttimo(dot)vox(dot)com/library/post/my-quakelive-dashboard.html
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Speaker
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:53 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

chiquita wrote:

One thing I would think would be good is to have a seperate pak of maps.. perhaps even popular ones and the old q3 remakes, which would be compatible with the textures. I've downloaded a couple when doing the textures (like overkill for eg) and the files are small since it doesnt need the extra textures.. and then cram a good number of maps into a small file (10mb for ex).


I do have a collection of nice custom maps (see an older post of mine in this topic). They vary in size (from 310 KB to 7 MB). I just have to move them to freeq3 (right now they are in a single archive on my WEB site) and make links for download. I will do it during the weekend. Maybe a nice index with screen shots and links to reviews. We shall see... :)

Please, give me links (names) of those small maps you have found so that I can test them and include the better ones in the collection.

As for including maps in the base distro, I don't think that it is necessary or desirable. Iirc we have decided that maps should be collected in a repository and everybody takes what she/he thinks is good. Q3MIN has one map just for a quick play test after downloading. It is 'ztn3dm1' now but I will try to find a good GPLed map as a substitute, to keep things simple.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Update: I have added the Openarena map 'aggressor' to pak0.pk3 and removed 'ztn3dm1' from the package. Now everything in the Q3MIN archive is strictly GPL.

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chiquita
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Replacement grenade sounds if anyone wants to try them.

The grenade hitting the floor is actually the OA default hit sound. I tried to take out as much hiss/distortion as possible.

The fire sound is the original OA sound but added deep compression, used strawberry swirl effect through it and distorted the first few millisecs to give it a kick effect.



pak9.pk3
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

PopeJo wrote:

5. announcer sounds like duke nukem! yay! :hoho:

just adding that the announcer voice was from 'Ben Drake'... for the credits list. I might have written Ben Clarke by mistake (dunno what made me think of that, must have been watching some crap on tv before sending the file) :ops:
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Speaker
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Hi,

The next version (0.6.4) of the Q3MIN distro is ready. It can be downloaded from the project's WEB site freeq3.com (go to Download->Game). The following changes have been implemented in this version:

1. Copied the GPLed map 'aggressor' (and its supporting textures and shaders) from Openarena 0.8.1. Removed the map 'ztn3dm1'. Now all stuff in the Q3MIN archive is strictly GPL.

2. Replaced grenade sounds using stuff provided by Chiquita. It is much better than the original (especially the bounce sound that sounded in OA like when kids kick around an empty tin box).

3. Ported my code for weapon grouping and ranking to Q3MIN (from a previous source mod of mine). Below is a description of how it works.

The order of weapons (i.e. their 'rank') is controlled by a new Cvar called 'cg_weaponRank' (default value is the empty string ""). The default means that the order (ranking) of weapons is the same as in the original game. You may specify a different weapon order by setting this Cvar as follows:

set cg_weaponRank "w1 w2 w3 w4 w5 w6 w7 w8 w9"

where w1, w2, etc. are weapon ID strings from the following sets:

ga mg sg gl rl lg rg pg bf
GA MG SG GL RL LG RG PG BF

There must be exactly nine weapon IDs, one for each weapon. The order of weapons in the game will follow the order in which they appear in the Cvar's string.

The standard weapons available in the game (from gauntlet to BFG) are now divided into weapon groups. There are four groups and there may be up to four weapons in each group. The default grouping is as follows:

Group 1: LG PG SG (close quarter fighting)
Group 2: RG MG LG (middle to long range, instant hit)
Group 3: BF RL GL (explosive projectiles, self-damage)
Group 4: GA (best left alone :))

Four additional Cvars are provided for overriding the default definitions of weapon groups:

cg_weaponGroup1
cg_weaponGroup2
cg_weaponGroup3
cg_weaponGroup4

The default value for these Cvars is the empty string "". You may set any of them in the same way as 'cg_weaponRank' above. For example:

set cg_weaponGroup2 "RL LG SG"

This will redefine weapon group 2 to have the rocket launcher, the lightning gun and the shotgun. You may add up to four weapons to each group, but no group may contain the same weapon twice. Weapons in the groups should be specified in a descending order (most powerful listed first, this is the order of selection within the group). If you set the Cvar to "" then the corresponding weapon group will have the default weapons in it.

The command 'weapon N' has been extended to take advantage of weapon grouping. It accepts arguments in the range 101 to 104. These numbers correspond to the four weapon groups. Passing the number of a weapon group (+ 100) results in the following actions depending on which weapon you currently use:

* if your current weapon is in the requested group, the next available
weapon from the same group is selected

* if your current weapon is from another group, the best weapon available
in the requested group is selected, but if no weapon in that group is
currently available then no change is made

If the ammo of your current weapon runs out, the game tries to select the best available weapon from the same group. If that is not possible, then the best available weapon from the full set is selected.

The working of the commands 'weapnext' and 'weapprev' can also be changed by setting the new Cvar 'cg_newWeaponSelect' to non-zero (default is zero). Zero means that weapon selection works in the same way as in the original Q3A game. A non-zero value causes weapon selection to be changed: the commands do not wrap around (they stop at the respective end of the weapon list) and the gauntlet can also be selected.

BTW, almost no feedback so far. Are you all sleeping? :)

Speaker

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PopeJo
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

no, but I can not test much. I still got the bug in WINE, that my mouse is caught in the small window of the real resolution, thus I cant play fullscreen.

1. BF? i thought bfg has been removed.

2. sry, dont mean to be rude. but, what is the grouping good for? its just 6 weapons, because MG and gauntlet are default, and BFG has been disabled, no?
grouping could be relevant if the time between weapon switch is instant, like in cpm. but with the default setting, weaponswitching is so slow, that shooting your gun empty and not switching before, gets you killed in more then 90% of all cases.

3. sounds: i hear a ticking noise, like a clock, similar to the "bell" hitsound in OA. in teh map ztndm2. but haven't been able to find out what is was. a weapon, a part of the armor?
I definitely need to try some for longer. and this needs more time, so I cant give feedback every 2 days =D

will try the newest verion next.

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chiquita
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Posts: 1410
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

I'm totally lost on the weapon change system. On my FFA server a game can last 1 min and is franticly fast. I use the mouse wheel to change weapon and only recently started using the numbers, and even that is very difficult to remember when you have to think in advance of 0.2 seconds. I have weapon switching at 10ms or something, since fast weapon switching is popular. I see people switch from rail to rocket all the time or shotgun to machine gun.. thats something that's difficult to do quickly for alot of players so with the further weapon groups would be even more confusing or difficult to use... unless you had infinite and all ammo... all of the time.

But, i guess it's possible just to ignore these if you dont want to use them? Like I said, in a FFA with 10 players weapon grouping is something my mind wont be calculating when being shot at behind with a machine gun and seeing people fighting in front of me.

Anyway, my weapon changes when i run out of ammo and looking at the amount of ammo is quite enough for my brain than having to think about grouping stuff :) Unless I'm reading it wrong.
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

I also found the gibs folder in the models folder. The names of the files were enough to revolt me from opening them :)
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

This is one of the better players on my server. As you can see.. he changes weapons to suit very quickly.

This was just a couple of random games... he might not even be trying or playing good. But what use of weapon grouping could be used in this case, since it's very fast.

clanarena.org/arena/vi...tle_HoOne/

(btw.. there is an option to turn off kill messages so it doesnt show in the console when he kills someone)
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Hi,

------------------------
Note: The download of the new version is temporarily broken (I had problems when updating it). It will be fixed in a few hours.
------------------------

@PopeJo:

First of all, if you don't want or like the new selection system, just leave the Cvars at default and you have the original behavior. I am for multiple choices if they ares possible to implement in a reasonable way. If we leave everything as it was then there is no progress. I put in such stuff only if it is client side, is completely optional and must be explicitly selected.

As for what it is good for: You can group similar weapons to the same group and use them in specific situations. An example: LG, PG and SG are in the default group 1. These are all good for close fighting, and do not cause you self damage. So when you suddenly find yourself in a close situation, you just select this group (one key press!) and can be sure that a suitable weapon is brought up. Also if you run out of ammo you can be sure than the game will not automatically select let's say the RL which is dangerous to you at close range, but will try to give you a weapon from the same group.

Also I am not sure what you mean by the MG and GA being default. How are they different from others with respect to weapon selection? You still have to select them explicitly if you want to use them.

I am sure that quite a few players will experiment with this new system and find it useful. I did, that's why I ported the code from my previous mod.

@chiquita:

Quote::

On my FFA server a game can last 1 min and is franticly fast. I use the mouse wheel to change weapon and only recently started using the numbers, and even that is very difficult to remember when you have to think in advance of 0.2 seconds.

With all due respect, you are crazy if you run or play on such servers. How can a game last only 1 minute? q3dm1 with 16 players or what? Or a frag limit of 2? Don't tell me that this is typical.

Anyway, in this situation fast selection of a certain type of weapon by a single key press may even be more useful.

Speaker

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Speaker wrote:
Hi,

With all due respect, you are crazy if you run or play on such servers. How can a game last only 1 minute? q3dm1 with 16 players or what? Or a frag limit of 2? Don't tell me that this is typical.

Anyway, in this situation fast selection of a certain type of weapon by a single key press may even be more useful.

Speaker

Well you can see from the stats which were reset 4 days ago that it's fairly popular
q3eu.com/site/vsp/pub/...lweaps.php

The fraglimit is 20.. the max players is 10. The weapon respawns every 2 seconds so it means everyone has a fair chance of getting a weapon and playing to their potential. We have had discussions about map rotations and increasing fraglimit but some people dont like some maps so it's just really a game of skill to reach 20 in the fastest time possible :) But I am not a very good player, it would be even worse for me if I had to wait for weapons and such... also everyone starts with a teleporter so they can have one chance of escaping an unlucky spawn and is great for a second chance if you get thrown over the void on dm17 (which can make the game last longer)...

But another consideration is the amount of players and size of map... 2 or 3 players on one map can last maybe 4 or 5 mins... so I can't control the number or quality of players who are on the server at the same time. 10 players may sound excess but it's not often there are that amount of players. It's also difficult to keep everyone happy. If someone doesnt like a map they might sit out, then join next game.. but if the fraglimit is higher they may well just leave. Anyway, it's fun either way, even if there's 2 or 10 players :) I often end up with 2 frags when really good players are playing. But if the fraglimit is higher then there's a greater divide between the better and weaker players.

ps. some of the maps are small, some medium... so thats why a game can be so short... but if its only 2 players then the small maps are more suitable. On 1.16 I only have the choice of the default q3 maps.
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

And another point... I dont use q3dm1 (smallest map is q3dm5) and its not because it's crammed full of players that a game can last a minute. It's usually the skill of a good player that can end a game within one minute. It doesnt happen often but when it does it's always noted by the winning player at end of match (although I assume a 1 min finish time could be 1 min 50 secs). Typically a game will last 3 or 4 mins.

maybe i'm too noob for a really skilled game but for sure I'm not alone :/
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Uh, jacky had a frantic server with 10 frags limit. Most games ended in less than 1 min provided nuff players. It was actualy pretty damn cool.

The weapons selection is pretty neat, though I see it better suited in slower fps's like UrT or cs. Most players I know have and need each weapon bound to one key.

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