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Ping - Part 2
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Joki
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:32 pm    Post subject: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

Since the pictures in the old topic got deleted i'll put this up again :P

There is a bug with the vanilla q3/oa score-window when displaying your ping. If you have a fast connection and the server got enough upload, your ping will be best, if you set cl_maxpackets 125, even when the score-window (TAB-key) will display a better ping, when using lower cl_maxpackets-settings. This bug is really old and only recent OSP/CPMA-versions have a fix by this: If you enable /cg_trueping 1 (the old, buggy cvar cg_drawping 1 still displays the wrong value) it will display your real ping in the lower right corner.

The second thing is about timenudge. What it does is using the last 2 snapshots the client got from the server to interpolate (predict) where the enemy will be in the future. This sounds wonderful until this point. "Hey, I have ping 150, so i just use cl_timenudge -150 and the lag is gone". Beside causing some "stuttering" in the enemy movement, it has more limitations:
- You must have /cg_smoothclients 0 (=disabled. This is also a client cvar. Otherwise, it will create the stuttering from using timenudge, but the effect will not work)
- If you decide to use timenudge start by setting it to -5: /cl_timenudge -5
- Make sure you have the lagometer enabled (cl_lagometer 1) in the lower left corner
- Now slowly increase your timenudge: cl_timenudge -6, cl_timenudge -7 ... until the upper line in your lagometer starts to show a lot of yellow little dots. If you got a lot yellow little dots, you have set a too high value. It will not be able to interpolate the enemy more, instead the snapshot will be delayed on your client, so you see stuff that happens even later.
Here is an example of a lagometer that shows a "too high" cl_timenudge:



Here is an example of an "ok"-timenudge a value that was set too high. Lower it, until you dont see much yellow in the upper line. (about 20% should be ok)



For me this is about cl_timenudge -11/-12, it might vary for others.

[/nerdpost]

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Falkland
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

- cl_timenudge range is hardcoded to -30 -- +30 in the ioq3 revision used for OA081 and even if the limit will be removed , the unlagged code just limit it to -50 -- +50 ( CG_Cvar_ClampInt( cv->cvarName, cv->vmCvar, -50, 50 ); )

Code::
// code/client/cl_cgame.c

/*
==================
CL_SetCGameTime
==================
*/
void CL_SetCGameTime( void ) {

...

		// cl_timeNudge is a user adjustable cvar that allows more
		// or less latency to be added in the interest of better 
		// smoothness or better responsiveness.
		int tn;
		
		tn = cl_timeNudge->integer;
		if (tn<-30) {
			tn = -30;
		} else if (tn>30) {
			tn = 30;
		}
...

Code::
// code/cgame/cg_main.c
...

void CG_UpdateCvars( void ) {
	int			i;
	cvarTable_t	*cv;

	for ( i = 0, cv = cvarTable ; i < cvarTableSize ; i++, cv++ ) {
//unlagged - client options
		// clamp the value between 0 and 999
		// negative values would suck - people could conceivably shoot other
		// players *long* after they had left the area, on purpose
		if ( cv->vmCvar == &cg_cmdTimeNudge ) {
			CG_Cvar_ClampInt( cv->cvarName, cv->vmCvar, 0, 999 );
		}
		// cl_timenudge less than -50 or greater than 50 doesn't actually
		// do anything more than -50 or 50 (actually the numbers are probably
		// closer to -30 and 30, but 50 is nice and round-ish)
		// might as well not feed the myth, eh?
		else if ( cv->vmCvar == &cl_timeNudge ) {
			CG_Cvar_ClampInt( cv->cvarName, cv->vmCvar, -50, 50 );
		}
...

- since OA081 has unlagged inside , cg_smoothclients client CVAR doesn't exist anymore : all is done server side only with g_smoothclients

Code::
// code/cgame/cg_main.c
...
//unlagged - smooth clients #2
// this is done server-side now
//vmCvar_t 	cg_smoothClients;
//unlagged - smooth clients #2
vmCvar_t	pmove_fixed;
//vmCvar_t	cg_pmove_fixed;
...

Quote from alternatefire.planetqu...README.txt

Quote::

...
UNLAGGED SERVER VARIABLES
-------------------------

g_delagHitscan

The default is "1", and you probably shouldn't change it. Setting it to
"0" switches off feature #1 (outlined above), but you still get the rest.


g_smoothClients

g_smoothClients in Unlagged works a little differently. Before,
g_smoothClients would send a little extra information about every player
entity over the wire, allowing clients to extrapolate 50ms of movement by
setting cg_smoothClients to "1". This would smooth out other players'
movement if those other players had a bad connection.

With Unlagged, setting g_smoothClients to "1" causes the server to do skip
correction itself, in a way that is compatible with the lag compensation.
(cg_smoothClients, by the way, is now undefined.) In fact, having this set
helps remove one obstacle to players getting consistent hits: the target's
possibly low framerate and/or sporadic outgoing connection. (The other
half of removing those barriers is the lag compensation itself.) The
amount of processing power required is minimal, so I suggest having this
set to "1" always.

...

Anyway these lines ABSOLUTELY DO NOT invalidate your guideline for setting a correct value for timenudge :)
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aanti
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:25 am    Post subject: Re: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

i tried -12 and -50, even with lots of yellow spikes -50 did feel much better
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Falkland
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:42 am    Post subject: Re: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

Well if u're using the default OA081 client ( or a client compiled with the oa-engine-0.8.1 sources ) there's no difference setting -30 or -50 because the cl_timenudge range is hardcoded to -30 -- +30 ...

That limit doesn't exist in the legacy client , so the unlagged code limit is valid ( -50 , 50 ).
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:05 am    Post subject: Re: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

Welcome to Placebo Arena! :mph:

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aanti
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

Falkland wrote:
Well if u're using the default OA081 client ( or a client compiled with the oa-engine-0.8.1 sources ) there's no difference setting -30 or -50 because the cl_timenudge range is hardcoded to -30 -- +30 ...

That limit doesn't exist in the legacy client , so the unlagged code limit is valid ( -50 , 50 ).

right, -30 still felt much better
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Falkland
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

[sXe wrote:
"]Welcome to Placebo Arena! :mph:

bah ... for me only rockets seem to be much responsive with a bit of negative timenudge ( -15 ) ... with a powerfull system maybe u're right.

CPM netcode is claimed to be better ( cg_nudge , cg_optimizeBW .. etc etc ) but "unfortunately" source code is not available to confirm that.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

But your location nowhere mainly affects pings > 100 ms. However unlagged netcode helps u much to survive.

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Joki
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

/me feels reminded of the very old 200-damage-double-rocket-hax:

Code::
//this was fixed in like q3 1.16n or 1.17 i think:
set drocket "+button0;wait;-button0;cl_timenudge -800;+button0;wait;-button0;cl_timenudge 0"
bind x "vstr drocket"

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Falkland
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

Joki wrote:
/me feels reminded of the very old 200-damage-double-rocket-hax:

Code::
//this was fixed in like q3 1.16n or 1.17 i think:
set drocket "+button0;wait;-button0;cl_timenudge -800;+button0;wait;-button0;cl_timenudge 0"
bind x "vstr drocket"

This remember me something that it could still be done : pressing F12 for a screenshot while launching a rocket ... this was heavily used at the nemesis on bubctf1 ...

The full route :

- getting enemy flag
- down to the first jumper under the platform behind the base
- fire a rocket on the second jumper + screenshot

The result :
- a mega jump till the own base
- the score
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aanti
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

Falkland wrote:


This remember me something that it could still be done : pressing F12 for a screenshot while launching a rocket ... this was heavily used at the nemesis on bubctf1 ...

The full route :

- getting enemy flag
- down to the first jumper under the platform behind the base
- fire a rocket on the second jumper + screenshot

The result :
- a mega jump till the own base
- the score

aha, very interesting, i was already suspicous
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

cg_trueping 1


ah. i was looking for that cvar.. im sure there is a server setting to force trueping on all clients. They maybe differ on different mods so I'll have a look around
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Falkland
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

chiquita wrote:
cg_trueping 1


ah. i was looking for that cvar.. im sure there is a server setting to force trueping on all clients. They maybe differ on different mods so I'll have a look around

mmm ... I am not sure , but cg_trueping 1 main effect is to show the trueping of the spectators while spectating players ... the default behaviuor is to show the true ping only if not spectating anyone.

BTW ... the pak7-patch that was on Nemesis until 2 days ago _wasn't_ the oa071 pak7-patch : the crc is different ... now ... how to explain this ? How to not think it was a fishy pak ? The pk3 files that starts with "pak" name are not autodownloaded by clients.
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

yea.. alma disables downloads. i think she is concerned with lag and stuff.

They have a list of downloads on their forum.. but i cant remember the url.
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Falkland
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Ping - Part 2 Reply with quote

chiquita wrote:
yea.. alma disables downloads.

The point is that if the name of a pk3 file starts with "pak" , client will not autodowload it ..... so if it has " special functions " , only players that _already_ have that pak can use its " special functions ".
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