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The golden pot › DEV › Maps, Models and Mods › Redo OA?
Redo OA?
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Speaker
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

SnooSnoo wrote:
chiquita wrote:
Thing I like most is having the config in the same bloody folder rather than that App crap. I think that application folder is one of the worst things, especially for beginners and non-techies since the apps folder is one of the hidden ones. Also it confuses the people who are used to the normal q3.

Yes I agree, but it makes things easy if multiple users use that machine and the game. That way they dont mix their settings.

Theoretically you are right. However, my guess is that most gamers (95 percent?) have their own dedicated machine used by a single person (usually at home). For these people (many of whom might be newbies as far as the working of operating systems is concerned) the use of a separate (hidden!) folder for game config files can be quite confusing. Let's accept the truth: Windows XP is not generally used as a multiuser OS (it's just as well :) ).

In a truly multiuser setup you can have separate instances of the game for every user. Yea, a waste of space, but who cares when the smallest HD you can buy nowadays is 80 GB.

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SnooSnoo
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

I agree with having everyithing in the install folder. That way whenever I change my os I dont have to start a new sticky to point ppl where the downloaded stuff goes. :)

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pulchr
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

the app-data folder setup for configs and downloads is a pretty bad solution in my opinion. this is better

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Falkland
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

pulchr wrote:
... this is better

Back in the days Q3 was originally not designed as multiuser and it hadn't either autodownload

Are we going back instead of forth ?

In case of affermative response , what's the main target of the project ?
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pulchr
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:16 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

so far i've never felt that the installation in the user directories is better than having configs and downloaded content where i actually decided to install the game.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Falkland wrote:
pulchr wrote:
... this is better

Back in the days Q3 was originally not designed as multiuser and it hadn't either autodownload

Are we going back instead of forth ?

In case of affermative response , what's the main target of the project ?

I guess the question was intended as sarcasm. Of course we want to go forward. However, that does not mean that we should not correct some design flaws introduced after the initial release.

I believe that using the 'Documents and Settings' folder is such a flaw. As pointed out by others already, it causes problems when an inexperienced person who never heard of 'Documents and Settings' and imagines that multiuser means more than one person sitting in front of the screen installs Quake3.

In retrospect, I admit that complete removal of the option of using the 'Documents and Settings' folder may have been a bit drastic. I think now that the correct solution is to put it back, BUT make the original behavior the default. That is, if you want to use the game in a multiplayer environment, you have to explicitly declare this on the command line (something like '+set multiuser 1').

I hope that this is going to be satisfactory to everybody.

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SnooSnoo
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Not a bad idea..

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kernel_panic
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Yeah, the use of user folders is crap. It wouldn't be so bad if Windows didn't have such a confusing structure--although even in linux it pisses me off having two 'baseoa' folders. In any case, this is a freaking game that you don't even install, I don't see why you should bother with per-user settings; honestly, who the hell has a multiuser OA fucking environment? Leaving the option for them but not making it the default seems like the way to go.

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JockeTF
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

I prefer having the settings, downloaded maps and mods in a different directory.

I use Linux though and storing everything in ~/.<name_of_application> is what most applications do.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

JockeTF wrote:
I prefer having the settings, downloaded maps and mods in a different directory.

I use Linux though and storing everything in ~/.<name_of_application> is what most applications do.

Only the behavior under Windows has been changed. Under Linux the game works as previously (i.e. uses separate folders in the users' home directories). It does make sense and people running Linux are a little more familiar with this multiuser stuff. So there is no reason to change.

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JockeTF
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

That makes sense then. =)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Hi,

Another release of Q3MIN is done, it can be downloaded from here:

freeq3.com/data/q3min-v063.zip

The following things are new as compared to the previous version:

1. Ported the code for UT-style smooth zooming to Q3MIN (from a previous source mod of mine). In order to use this new zoom technique, you should set the new cvar 'cg_newZoom' to non-zero. In this case the old zooming commands are disabled and the following new commands become available:

togglezoom -> toggle between zoomed and normal views
+zoomin -> increase zoom factor while zoomed
+zoomout -> decrease zoom factor while zoomed

Retains the last set zoom factor between zoom activations. A new telescope-like crosshair is used with the new zooming scheme.

Try it, I believe that it is better than the original simple zoom. Please note that this works only with the railgun (the only truly precise long-range weapon). Zooming in the new scheme is not allowed if you currently hold some other weapon.

Note: This limitation may be removed if the majority thinks it inappropriate. I believe that it's more realistic this way, but let's hear your votes! Maybe it makes sense to allow zooming for the machinegun, but with the other weapons it is kind of pointless IMO.

2. Replaced the crosshairs ('b' to 'i', i.e. 1 to 8) with better ones resembling the original ID crosshairs.

3. The package now includes a Linux dedicated server binary. It was compiled under Zenwalk Linux but should work with other Linux distros as well.

4. Modified file system initialization. Added a new Cvar called "fs_multiuser" with a default value of zero. If this Cvar is set to non-zero, then the game will use user specific folders in the 'Documents and Settings" system directory for storing config files and other stuff. Otherwise the install directory of the game is used (old behavior, before XP). The Cvar should be set on the command line to have the desired effect. This works only under Windows XP. Under Linux everything is as before.

OK, there will be no new releases for a while. I have other things to do (e.g. making a decent WEB site on 'freeq3'). Also maybe during the weekend we should start the discussion about what to implement and in what order. Also PLEASE TEST THIS STUFF! I am sure that you will find some problems that must be corrected. :(

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chiquita
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

wow.. quite alot done so far oO

I set up the web space which was originally hosting the updated textures. I done a quick install of phpbb3 which seemed to work fine. Unfortunately I have lots to do and things to get sorted out so I probably wont be able to participate that much.

I guess you guys and gals can sort out how best to work it.

My bandwidth is poor also so wont be able to download all that often.. so hopefully the base package will be kept fairly small :P

I should also be able to accomodate some server space. I did have two OA servers up but were always empty. I'm only using it for webspace and my 1.16 server which is usually quite busy
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Falkland wrote:
pulchr wrote:
... this is better

Back in the days Q3 was originally not designed as multiuser and it hadn't either autodownload

Are we going back instead of forth ?

In case of affermative response , what's the main target of the project ?

Well it makes it alot easier for a development environment. Also alot of the other comments are justified too. I mean we're really only talking about a config file really. I cant imagine a queue of people waiting to get on a machine to play the same game. Also the apps dir doesn't seem to work quite as well as it should.. for example, some of the maps I've downloaded download to the base folder, yet some dl to the app folder. I don't know if it's a bug but just happened to notice it on occasion that it was inconsistent.

Also I think it's a waste of disk space if duplicate mods and maps are all different users folders (if they were indeed loads of users playing the same game on one system), and the only difference is really the config.

On a linux system I can understand the file system preference the way it is, but as already said, it's probably just another weakness of the way windows have tried to introduce a multi-user system. On linux you can get to it in seconds but with windows you may find yourself hunting through files which most people arent used to or have needed to do so.
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SnooSnoo
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

The thing is, that, with each version of win, the folder changes. Thats a bit annoying.

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