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jokictf2
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Joki
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:56 am    Post subject: jokictf2 Reply with quote

its still BETA!!

but i need people to playtest it, to see what i got to change next. played it already today with decent success.

SEE HERE!



known issues:

- very yellowish
- some areas too bright
- center area could be better protected
- railgun respawn time TOO long?
- center building ugly
- misaliged patch at jumppad from blue base
- ammo placement
- some jump-shortcuts shouldnt be possible
- some torches dont do damage

please post further suggestions here!

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PopeJo
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: jokictf2 Reply with quote

lol, the bridge is see-through? it ain't with my lo-fi settings :ops:

- maybe lower the bridge a little - so it can be rocket jumped on from near the flag - to make a faster escape / stop an escapist.

- torches are awfully loud. the whole map sounds like a box of crunching cereals

- railgun respawn IS to high

- please: don't make the whole ceiling an invisible wall. that'd suck when rocket jumping. just raise the walls with invisible walls or add glass + concrete, like in every german inner city these days :blarg:

- the map is very closed and sneaky now. flag can't be captured without teamplay. so this needs a lot of 4v4 testing. LET'S DO THIS!

- it lacks a the hidden flag-to-flag teleporter for RN members :mph:

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Joki
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:34 pm    Post subject: Re: jokictf2 Reply with quote

Updated:

jockl.kilu.de/vault/

might need some tweaking on the lighting and/or item placement, and/or lower railgun spawntime. please gimme feedback.

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pulchr
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: jokictf2 Reply with quote

i gave the new version a go and here are some thoughts. i don't really have any opinions on the gameplay as the bots couldn't navigate the map properly. they only stood in their bases and walked around in stuttering patterns.



image 1: i think that the overall map is too dark considering how bright the sky is. you can't even see some walls when there's shadow there.

image 2: how about adding a fog volume on the outside of the map to give depth and hide the stretched clouds?

image 3: just a brush that has been placed a little off.

image 4: i think that the middle wall here is too thin. this big flat area in the middle would be more interesting if you could hide behind the centre and move around. as it is now only have to strafe a couple of steps to the left or right and you can see the entire middle area.

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kernel_panic
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: jokictf2 Reply with quote

It definitely is too dark. With the default configuration bots are not visible in some places around the base.

I think pulchar is right about the fog thing. The outside part doesn't look nice as it is and that could be a way to solve it.

Picture 2 from pulchar's post. When you take the second left and go down the ramp you can get stuck at the end of it at both sides of the archway. A bit of clip would do.

The two middle columns supporting the central structure (quad) don't look fine to me. They seem to be supporting the wood bridge rather than the building. I ain't an architect, in any case, so who knows how these things are done. That building looks a bit boring as seen from the sides...(oh, but you knew this :D ).

A vertical wood stair instead of the jump pad would perhaps fit in more with the rest of the map?

Bots are horribly stupid! At least in CTF mode.

I like the skybox and the fog! And some of those textures are pretty nice too.

We should try it for real with a minimum of 3vs3, I think it can be fun to play.

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Falkland
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: jokictf2 Reply with quote

too darkness-ish sensation is also caused by that fucking default red/blue oa models ... with brightskins a bit much darkness is better ... I can play with default gamma ( 1 ) and default map bright options if I can use brightskins , but not with the default sarge team models

I don't know why they did not still adjust that fucking red/blue team skins .... I mean ... look at default q3 keel or sarge red and blue model and see the difference with OA sarge ones ....

So , dear OA CEO ( del kaiser(tm) [IT] ) , could u please make that fucking red/blue models as VISIBLE RED and VISIBLE BLUE and not quite DARK BLUE and DARK RED ?

EDIT : as before .... the map is not so dark ... there are darker maps in OA ... I want to point that the dark blue/red of the team oa models is the real problem ....


Last edited by Falkland on Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Joki
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:11 am    Post subject: Re: jokictf2 Reply with quote

pulchr: these are all reasonable suggestions. i'll fix those tomorrow. also: note that the clouds + sky is pretty dark fitting the dark lighting of the map when running the map in q3. however when running the map in OA, the sky is REALLY bright and the clouds... instead of barely discernible, soft fog, its a big BRIGHT, WALL of clouds, since the clouds do exist in oa too, but are using a different shader. :/

could you give a bit more info, on what you would do with the wall in the center, maybe a top-view, pulchr?

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Joki
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: jokictf2 Reply with quote

- redid all lighting!!! (dont care of lighting on the outside of the main-building)
- added location names, so you can see where your team mates are, if you have /cg_drawTeamOverlay 1 enabled
- fixed bridge
- changed locations of PG, RL (center), removed YA, added RA
-> hopefully this will make the "sneaky" LG/YA-route less attractive for quick rush-exits
- using darker, softer clouds now also for OA, not just Q3
- added hideout area in the center as suggested by pulchr
-> turned out nicely! :]
- changed some texturing
- raised all torches above jumping-heigth
- added clipping to critical archs (the both in the center and the 4 that lead to the ramps)

not changed:

- added fog to void -> causes very ugly bugs when used over skybox, removed!
- keeping uglyness of tower \o/
- keeping the jumppad. i dont like ladder-type stairs, cause you can use them to INSTANTLY appear in front of the enemy. jumppads however give the above player a reasonable 400ms to react. :P

Here is the new (and i guess final!) version:

jockl.kilu.de/vault/

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jackthompson
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: Re: jokictf2 Reply with quote

uploaded :D
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Joki
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: jokictf2 Reply with quote

voll geil, hnäh ?: ] is ja auch biergartensaisontag!

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Falkland
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: jokictf2 Reply with quote

Code::
// snip
------------ Map Loading ------------
trying to load maps/jokictf2.aas
loaded maps/jokictf2.aas
weapon_lightning not reachable for bots at (224.0 2392.0 -362.9)
weapon_rocketlauncher not reachable for bots at (1508.0 1544.0 -170.9)
item_armor_combat not reachable for bots at (-1144.0 2392.0 -362.9)
weapon_shotgun not reachable for bots at (1336.0 424.0 -362.9)
weapon_railgun not reachable for bots at (1728.0 -784.0 21.1)
item_health not reachable for bots at (1880.0 1432.0 -178.9)
ammo_lightning not reachable for bots at (1856.0 2512.0 -178.9)
ammo_shells not reachable for bots at (1872.0 2440.0 -178.9)
ammo_slugs not reachable for bots at (-1208.0 2528.0 -370.9)
ammo_grenades not reachable for bots at (-1136.0 2528.0 -370.9)
item_health_large not reachable for bots at (-1216.0 2320.0 -370.9)
ammo_rockets not reachable for bots at (1792.0 -1040.0 13.1)
ammo_bullets not reachable for bots at (1872.0 -960.0 13.1)
ammo_cells not reachable for bots at (1784.0 2520.0 -178.9)
item_health_large not reachable for bots at (1168.0 2144.0 -74.9)
weapon_lightning not reachable for bots at (-416.0 -2216.0 -362.9)
item_armor_combat not reachable for bots at (952.0 -2216.0 -362.9)
ammo_slugs not reachable for bots at (1016.0 -2352.0 -370.9)
ammo_grenades not reachable for bots at (944.0 -2352.0 -370.9)
item_health_large not reachable for bots at (1024.0 -2144.0 -370.9)
team_CTF_redflag not reachable for bots at (-1700.0 -1776.0 -170.9)
weapon_rocketlauncher not reachable for bots at (-1700.0 -1368.0 -170.9)
item_health not reachable for bots at (-2072.0 -1256.0 -178.9)
ammo_lightning not reachable for bots at (-2048.0 -2336.0 -178.9)
ammo_shells not reachable for bots at (-2064.0 -2264.0 -178.9)
ammo_cells not reachable for bots at (-1976.0 -2344.0 -178.9)
item_health_large not reachable for bots at (-1360.0 -1968.0 -74.9)
team_CTF_blueflag not reachable for bots at (1508.0 1952.0 -170.9)
weapon_shotgun not reachable for bots at (-1528.0 -248.0 -362.9)
weapon_railgun not reachable for bots at (-1920.0 960.0 21.1)
ammo_rockets not reachable for bots at (-1984.0 1216.0 13.1)
ammo_bullets not reachable for bots at (-2064.0 1136.0 13.1)
item_quad not reachable for bots at (-104.0 88.0 21.1)
weapon_grenadelauncher not reachable for bots at (1728.0 114.0 21.1)
weapon_grenadelauncher not reachable for bots at (-1920.0 112.0 21.1)
weapon_plasmagun not reachable for bots at (1360.0 -400.0 -362.9)
ammo_lightning not reachable for bots at (-1232.0 -968.0 -578.9)
ammo_rockets not reachable for bots at (-1136.0 -1048.0 -578.9)
item_health not reachable for bots at (-1232.0 -1048.0 -578.9)
item_health not reachable for bots at (1872.0 -1040.0 13.1)
item_health not reachable for bots at (-2064.0 1216.0 13.1)
item_armor_shard not reachable for bots at (1864.0 -1092.0 99.1)
item_armor_shard not reachable for bots at (1608.0 -1092.0 99.1)
item_armor_shard not reachable for bots at (1736.0 -1092.0 99.1)
item_health_small not reachable for bots at (1800.0 -1092.0 99.1)
item_health_small not reachable for bots at (1672.0 -1092.0 99.1)
item_armor_shard not reachable for bots at (-2056.0 1268.0 99.1)
item_armor_shard not reachable for bots at (-1800.0 1268.0 99.1)
item_armor_shard not reachable for bots at (-1928.0 1268.0 99.1)
item_health_small not reachable for bots at (-1864.0 1268.0 99.1)
item_health_small not reachable for bots at (-1992.0 1268.0 99.1)
item_health_small not reachable for bots at (224.0 -8.0 -578.9)
item_armor_shard not reachable for bots at (224.0 112.0 -578.9)
item_armor_shard not reachable for bots at (224.0 352.0 -578.9)
item_armor_shard not reachable for bots at (224.0 -128.0 -578.9)
item_health_small not reachable for bots at (224.0 232.0 -578.9)
item_armor_shard not reachable for bots at (-424.0 352.0 -578.9)
item_armor_shard not reachable for bots at (-424.0 -128.0 -578.9)
item_armor_shard not reachable for bots at (-424.0 112.0 -578.9)
item_health_small not reachable for bots at (-424.0 232.0 -578.9)
item_health_small not reachable for bots at (-424.0 -8.0 -578.9)
weapon_rocketlauncher not reachable for bots at (568.0 -224.0 -570.9)
item_armor_body not reachable for bots at (840.0 720.0 -570.9)
weapon_plasmagun not reachable for bots at (-1552.0 576.0 -362.9)
weapon_rocketlauncher not reachable for bots at (-760.0 400.0 -570.9)
item_armor_body not reachable for bots at (-1032.0 -544.0 -570.9)
found 69 level items
-------------------------------------
...
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pulchr
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: jokictf2 Reply with quote

bots are incredibly stupid when i try out the map. both in openarena and quake 3 they are stuttering along and walking in circles.

have you clipped off areas or placed any cluster portals to ease their navigation?

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Strzelba
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: jokictf2 Reply with quote

map is for ppl not for bots i guess :D

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Falkland
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: jokictf2 Reply with quote

Strzelba wrote:
map is for ppl not for bots i guess :D

The AAS file is present ( - Area Awareness System (AAS) : map navigation system for bots - )

aigamedev.com/open/art...e3-engine/

No bots support means no AAS file ( like in q3amphi ) . In jokictf2 the bots can be loaded , but they cannot reach any items and/or find any route to items.
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Joki
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: jokictf2 Reply with quote

Yes. Bots are stupid. I dont care, thou.

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