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Redo OA?
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pulchr
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

i've encountered the problem with sounds not playing or playing too late in CTF-games. these sound effects are very important to the game and must be played immediately when the events occur. i'm not sure how they work at the moment but the latest event of the same kind (ctf-taken, ctf-returned, ctf-score, ctf-loss) should immediately cut off the other effect of the same kind and play over it.

the capture announcement should therefore be cut off if someone picks up a flag before the sound effect has been played through. half a second is important in ctf. again, i'm not a programmer so i don't know it is done - but that's how i would like it to work.

ability lock spectators from watching the enemy players is important in team games since strategies and player locations otherwises can be reported over voicechat. i think that speclock worked quite well in rtcw using the osp mod. the scoreboard was different though and using columns for the teams it was easy to see what team a spectator was watching. see screenshot below. this should also be a setting best used in clan games and not for public servers. here's an example of that scoreboard.



we should investigate what teamarena addon actually added. more game modes, weapons, another gui for the menus, other powerups. anything else?

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chiquita
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:02 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Since the flag sound issue seems important I will do what I can to find out what sounds should be played at one time, then I probably will pass it on to someone who knows more about it if it's a technical thing

Would it be possible to make a sort of modular q3, so that the core game could be seperate. It could also be the same for that q3 rally thing. But I guess there would have to be some sort of control or a good communication link by server admins so everyones running the same version and no pure issues are encountered. I dont know if a master server would help in that situation.

Me and a few people have been using ioq3 and just copying over pak0... just to play a simple game of insta rail on a single map. But q3min could be a perfect replacement and make it much simpler. Lets face it, very little people know about ioq3 and what servers people can join to take advantage of the download speeds. Just seems like little groups playing there own thing which is a bit of a shame.
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:06 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

SnooSnoo wrote:
Loads of stuff to read.
5th is unlagged an option or am I going to far ahead with this?
My oppinions for now. :)

Unlagged option is in there, i think the default oa release was used but dont seem to have the bad mouse effect that I remember before.. which is weird. I suggested to speaker to use the legacy one but think i requested it too late
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Speaker
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Joined: Mar 10, 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:41 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Hi,

Wow! That's a lot of stuff you people posted in a short time! I did not expect such a vigorous response to my pleas... :)

@chiquita:

Quote::

I have also sent speaker the redone textures with the rainbow style portals/teleportors (although I dont know if they have been added as yet).

I had no time to add them, sorry. Real soon now...

Quote::

A 1000ups rocket speed option.... I CANT STAND 900!! :ops:

Consider it done (I absolutely agree, the rockets are too slow).

@PopeJo:

Quote::

that would be too much work. it would be sufficient if the players within a team can't spec the other team while dead (in TDM, CA). in my opinion it is a bug, that you can, while being dead in CA, spectate ALL other players until the next round, not only the ones rom your team.

Actually it is not too much work to code IP address checking (I was thinking about it and have some ideas how to do it).

@chiquita:

Quote::

it would be nice to have a list of all the people, who could list anything they could help with no matter how big or small it is - even playing/testing. Then we could browse through it and see if anyone could put together something quicker or better.. a pm or/and post could be sent and not care too much if there's no reply, it can just be assumed the person is busy. Then if a new member joins they might have core skills that they could list that might have otherwise went unnoticed.

For example, we all know joki is a map specialist so we can go piss him off and ask him for a quick list of recommended tdm maps and save someone hours to go hunt them :D

Quite right. Also as a related subject, we should probably set up a list of proposed changes and improvements, and let people vote on these subjects. Anyone knows how to set up such a polling system on a WEB site?

@Snoosnoo:

Quote::

4th allmost forgot that, RG damage is 80 in quake live = much better.

5th is unlagged an option or am I going to far ahead with this?

I also think that the RG is a bit too powerful. I am willing to reduce RG damage to 80 provided that the majority supports this change.

Unlagged has been added to the Openarena engine, so it is already present in Q3MIN, too (I am using the same engine, slightly modifed).

@pulchr:

Quote::

i've encountered the problem with sounds not playing or playing too late in CTF-games. these sound effects are very important to the game and must be played immediately when the events occur. i'm not sure how they work at the moment but the latest event of the same kind (ctf-taken, ctf-returned, ctf-score, ctf-loss) should immediately cut off the other effect of the same kind and play over it.

I will investigate this issue, but not right now (there are other things with higher priorities). Can you, please, provide more details? (Like how often this occurs, if it is observed randomly or only in certain situations, etc.)

---------------------------------

It seems to me that the clear majority of people here would not be terribly sorry if the missionpack/TA shit were removed from the game (including the weapons introduced in that add-on package). So I am going to remove the thing (it will make my job of maintaining the source code much easier). You should protest now if you want to keep it, but you must give real good reasons.

Speaker

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chiquita
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:46 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

well if you complain about having no feedback.. you get what you deserve. I was so tempted to throw in a bzz... but older people wont know about bzz :hoho:

im too old to be hit on the head with a slipper :ops:
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:24 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Speaker wrote:
Hi,


Quote::

A 1000ups rocket speed option.... I CANT STAND 900!! :ops:

Consider it done (I absolutely agree, the rockets are too slow).


Speaker

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0xdan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:17 am    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

chiquita wrote:
0xdan wrote:
i just created an account on the q3min forum, just in case i can help ;)

It would be nice to have a list of all the people, who could list anything they could help with no matter how big or small it is - even playing/testing. Then we could browse through it and see if anyone could put together something quicker or better.. a pm or/and post could be sent and not care too much if there's no reply, it can just be assumed the person is busy. Then if a new member joins they might have core skills that they could list that might have otherwise went unnoticed.

For example, we all know joki is a map specialist so we can go piss him off and ask him for a quick list of recommended tdm maps and save someone hours to go hunt them :D

I agree, that's why i created an account and posted on the q3min forum =)
But as this current forum isn't public, it may be helpful to use the q3min forum to have such listing and to put thoughts and stuff.

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Speaker
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Hi,

It appears that we have a tough decision to make concerning the source base of future Q3MIN releases.

As you know, so far I have used the engine source from the Openarena SVN. It is a modified ioq3 engine into which the OA developers (mostly sago I guess) incorporated a lot of useful things (unlagged, elimination and last man standing game modes, etc.). Unfortunately, during this process the code was a bit messed up. For example it cannot be compiled w/o including the shitty missionpack/TA stuff. OTOH in the original ioquake3 releases this stuff can be very simply removed by omitting a certain compiler switch and still everything works.

So I have taken the latest ioquake3 source from 'icculus' and tested it if it works for our Q3MIN distro. After correcting a silly bug that the ioq3 developers failed to catch before release, everything worked fine. Then I added the changes I made so far using the OA source base and again everything worked OK.

We now have a choice whether to use the (messed up) OA source with the extra goodies, or use the plain ioq3 source that is clean and easy to maintain. I would much prefer the latter. However, in this case we (temporarily) loose those extra features, and they will have to be added at a later time (more work for me... :( ).

So I would like to have your opinion on this matter. Each vote of a potential engine coder (who will also have to work with the code) shall be counted as ten... ;)

Speaker

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chiquita
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Well at least alot of the mods have the code incoporated such as unlagged code.
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kernel_panic
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Quote::
Openarena SVN. It is a modified ioq3 engine into which the OA developers (mostly sago I guess) incorporated a lot of useful things (unlagged, elimination and last man standing game modes, etc.)

It would be good to have a list of features they added. Out of the ones you mention, unlagged is the most interesting; but can't it be added by just playing certain mods? Elimination and last man standing are very nice, although nobody plays those game types in any case.

Quote::
We now have a choice whether to use the (messed up) OA source with the extra goodies, or use the plain ioq3 source that is clean and easy to maintain. I would much prefer the latter. However, in this case we (temporarily) loose those extra features, and they will have to be added at a later time (more work for me... :( )

I like the idea of following upstream rather than OA, but I'm not a coder. Hopefully people with a "10 vote" right will pop up and share their opinion--even if they don't plan to exercise their 'rights'.

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Falkland
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

chiquita wrote:
Well at least alot of the mods have the code incoporated such as unlagged code.

Coding unlagged should not be so difficult because every unlagged code section is limited by "parenthesis" ...

for example :

Code::
...
//unlagged - misc

	if ( !cg_lagometer.integer /* || cgs.localServer */) {

//unlagged - misc
...

the same thing is for freezetag

Code::
...
// freeze
<freezetag specific code>
// freeze
...

Scaling down RG damage from 100 to 80 is a good idea , but CNQ3 range based damage could be better ( 80hp for high, 90 for mid , 100 for low range )

The same thing for LG : in QL LG damage is at range ( 5hp for high, 6 for mid , 7 for low range )

Using the same distance for defining high,mid,low range for both weapons could make things easier.
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SnooSnoo
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Tough choice indeed mr Speaker, but you got my vote for the ioq3 vay. If unlagged wont be hard to implement.

I like Falkland's ideas about the RG and LG damage. Might be a good option.

EDIT, chiqui, you might want to use the edit button more maybe. It makes the forum cleaner if you dont post twice in a row or more :) Thank you for your understanding.

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jackthompson
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

code.google.com/p/oax/

that's sago his own SVN (the mod only, not the engine)...
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Falkland
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

jackthompson wrote:
http://code.google.com/p/oax/

that's sago his own SVN (the mod only, not the engine)...

The problem with OAX is explained by Speaker himself : he coded first q3min vm around the OA081SDK , but he choose ioq3 VM because oA VM has elimination , domination ... etc ... and because the MISSIONPACK section is moslty integrated in baseoa ( as the MP weapons ) and that's what Speaker and most ppl here don't want.

In the ioq3 VM , MISSIONPACK code is still delimited by the #def MISSIONPACK macro , so skipping the entire built of the MP could be easily done putting BUILD_MISSIONPACK=0 in the Makefile.local

In this way we could have a standard ioq3 VM + unlagged + q3min specific change. The better way IMHO.
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0xdan
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

I reckon using the ioq3 src is a better choice than the OA one.
And sorry to be redundant but why don't we share those questions and thoughts on the Q3min forum?

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