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Redo OA?
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a_clown
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:15 pm    Post subject: Redo OA? Reply with quote

As you can see: OA is taking its last breath, there are only a few serious players and many of them told they will go to ql(when its available for linux) or go back to q3 and so on.

OA is so "ultracrowded" with noobs(im not against noobs...im a noob too...but i think many of them only play this game to shoot a bit) its not funny!

I think everyone knows the reasons?

-the std maps are so crappy( i dont mean pulctf and so on...these are great ), i dont know why maps like oa_bases are in this game? And these maps are the most played ones, because u can stand still during instagib ctf camping?

-every server is full of bots, there are ctf servers with 8 bots?

-the sound is not good( i cannot even hear the armor sound * klickklack *), or take the RG sound, wuuuuah?

-the models are so bad... *puke*

-leilol is against competitive features(but these would keep the community alive->look at warsow)

What can we do? Quit OA and go back to q3 or ql?
We could start a new q3-like game project with:

-balanced weapons: i dont think this game needs proxmines, nailgun, chaingun and bfg? Lightning-gun in oa is overpowered, should be fixed. We could play a bit around with other things too( railgun damage down? )

-keep vq3-like-physics ( fps-independend )

-build in competitive features, we need "gamer-developers" :
1.brightskins or better pm-skins
2.good sounds
3. serverdemo recording
4. Better Tourney-features
5. ...

-good gametypes:
dm (i know its not good...)
TDM
CTF
?One Flag CTF?
Freezetag
Defrag-like

-nice maps

-use a better fitting style, the game should look cool too :) -> no oa-like Gl or RG ( with cg_drawgun 0 its ok :) )

so, i would love to see ideas and additions :)

I hope we can start a new game-project because OA is for many of us not fun anymore

a_clown

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PopeJo
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

great idea. I help where I can, but that'll not be much.

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a_clown
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

PopeJo wrote:
great idea. I help where I can, but that'll not be much.

Ideas and testing would be cool! :)!

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jackthompson
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

it's hard to compete with ql without artists...

you dont attract artists without coders who make their lives easier by liberating their creativity...

you dont attract coders by locking the codebase away into a .tar.gz which is hidden in a SVN that is mis-used as a file-storage (also for assets which are mostly binary)... that's how you build concentration camps for coders.. not a appealing enviroment...

that is my list of problems with OA... i think it's a good idea to fork... point me to some proper SVN and i'll contribute things i feel would be nice...


Last edited by jackthompson on Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joki
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

a_clown wrote:
OA is so "ultracrowded" with noobs(im not against noobs...im a noob too...but i think many of them only play this game to shoot a bit) its not funny!

Yea, thats why i tried to start out #instantctf @ qnet, to get some serious and good matches. :)


a_clown wrote:

-the std maps are so crappy( i dont mean pulctf and so on...these are great ),

DIDNT YOU FORGET SOMETHING THERE??? :s :ops: :| :down:

a_clown wrote:

-the sound is not good( i cannot even hear the armor sound * klickklack *), or take the RG sound, wuuuuah?


i use the Q3-souds for that matter o.o;


a_clown wrote:

-the models are so bad... *puke*

and i play CTF only on maps that have the brightskins. :I

a_clown wrote:

-balanced weapons: i dont think this game needs proxmines, nailgun, chaingun and bfg? Lightning-gun in oa is overpowered, should be fixed. We could play a bit around with other things too( railgun damage down? )

nailgun, chaingun and bfg can be disabled using cvars serversided. and lightning gun works exactly the same as in q3 afaik: 10 "shots" per second, 8 damage each.

and we have tried having OSP servers and custom map servers. but only a handfull of (RN-)people played there, because the random noob doesn't take the time to look at the game-menu to find the " allow download"-option, before playing a game he just downloaded. (even if he's been playing it for months. :)) without autodownload being enabled by default, you won't even have enough ppl on play custom-maps-server. (rn tried this twice afaik)

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jackthompson
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

i edited my previous post because i got carried away by ranting.. and this is supposed to be a constructive topic right?

a OA fork will have the huge advantage over QL that people can run their own servers with own content for free... (in QL they want to rent slots to people...) ...this advantage hasn't been used the last 3 years in OA either despite the UrT team already having a nice solution.. a central pk3 repository... the advantages are so obvious...

it would be ideal to get away from ioq3 codebase even if that means to start with the original GPL release again... because nothing they have done added real value for the players.. they ruined the feeling and added VoIP instead which people either hate or have anyways in a more universal manifestation..


Last edited by jackthompson on Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jackthompson
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

damn... i can't talk about this without getting into rant mode again... :mph:
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Falkland
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

a_clown wrote:
... they will go to ql(when its available for linux) ...

gamelogic is ready (qagamei386.so , cgamei386.so , ui386.so)

quakelive.so ( the engine is built as a shared object/dll since it's called to be executed by the browser plugin ) and pb support are still missing.

Anyway , as I wrote also on OA forum :

- quakelive is built as a web browser plugins for the possibility to have ingame ads , but at least also for permitting _A ONE WAY ONLY INTERACTION_ (u are not able to start a server , u don't receive an executable that u can run locally without accessing to the system , u can't customize anything that is out of the qlconfig text file ... )

- Its protocol is 73 , uses a different bsp version - 46 instead of 45 ( true or faked ) - for maps so to not allow using them in any other game.

- it's organized as a OWN NETWORK : they buy servers around the world , place game gameservers , maybe a db and a redundant web access server and aggregate all this to the QL network to make it consistent.

- QL stores players infos and stats over a Oracle 11g DB based system

- They also have their own TV in which they manage all the live matches as in GTV and make availabe all the played matches : posting demos on es reality or on challenge TV or videos on youtube is meaningless since they have such their own system.

- They seem to have collected all the experiences made by single/group of players around the q3 experience and placed them in a ALL-IN-ONE SYSTEM ( idk if ppl that had made this work for real - and I mean who comes from "live", "on the road" q3 experiences - were / are involved in it )


a_clown wrote:


-the std maps are so crappy( i dont mean pulctf and so on...these are great ), i dont know why maps like oa_bases are in this game? And these maps are the most played ones, because u can stand still during instagib ctf camping?

...


Players interested to games in general try once and suddenly wipe OA because of crap maps , crap models ... etc

ONLY target players that have a misconcept of playing remain : they don't like to learn to play, they come to click click bang bang everything , reach a score of 10^10 and say or think yeah , I'm the best ... mostly choosing the shortest way using a "bot to aim"

The rest are the veterans (fair and/or development involved) players.

a_clown wrote:

What can we do? Quit OA and go back to q3 or ql?

We could start a new q3-like game project with:

-balanced weapons: i dont think this game needs proxmines, nailgun, chaingun and bfg? Lightning-gun in oa is overpowered, should be fixed. We could play a bit around with other things too( railgun damage down? )

-keep vq3-like-physics ( fps-independend )

-build in competitive features, we need "gamer-developers" :
1.brightskins or better pm-skins
2.good sounds
3. serverdemo recording
4. Better Tourney-features
5. ...

-good gametypes:
dm (i know its not good...)
TDM
CTF
?One Flag CTF?
Freezetag
Defrag-like

-nice maps

-use a better fitting style, the game should look cool too :) -> no oa-like Gl or RG ( with cg_drawgun 0 its ok :) )

so, i would love to see ideas and additions :)


- balanced weapons , expecially LG and RG revision : I've proposed on OA forum to have LG and RG damage at range ( eg 7-6-5 hp per bolt respectively at low-mid-high range for LG - 100-90-80 hp per shot at low-mid-high range for RG )
- nailgun, chaingun and bfg should be removed ...
- proximity mine can be used as a tactical weapon but they should be made spam-proof ( respawn time should be higher than normal weapons , and the should become a rare weapon ... if not possible , I agree it's better to completely remove them.
- serverdemo was introduced into a trem-related-engine ( tremfusion, fsm-trem .... I don't remember exactly ) ...
- there are also other interesting improvements in projects like tremfusion or XreaL that can be implemented in OA engine.
- UrTevolution team is coding a PHP-web-based adiministration interface : maybe something like this could be also useful for OA
- An anticheat system ( not anything that makes miracles but something like NoGhost one that can recognize at least well known cheats trhough client cvar dump - like OSP does for checking some client cvars) ... UrT 4.2 will have a such system , but it will not be opensource.
....


a_clown wrote:


I hope we can start a new game-project because OA is for many of us not fun anymore

a_clown

At the moment OA is not only not fun but completely inaccessible : the OA site responds since 2 days with a connection refused mex for me.


Last edited by Falkland on Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:02 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Falkland
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

jackthompson wrote:

a OA fork will have the huge advantage over QL that people can run their own servers with own content for free... (in QL they want to rent slots to people...) ...this advantage hasn't been used the last 3 years in OA either despite the UrT team already having a nice solution.. a central pk3 repository... the advantages are so obvious...

I agree here : dfengine is going in the same direction ... they have implemented an explicit /download command (no autodownload) and most of the maps are on q3a.ath.cx/ site.

I've also wrote this on OA forum : a centralized place ( not central ... centralized could mean also that is not the only one , but redundant and accessible under a single URL - something like sourceforge mirrors ) could be useful.

jackthompson wrote:

it would be ideal to get away from ioq3 codebase even if that means to start with the original GPL release again... because nothing they have done added real value for the players...

This means to port back to the q3-1.32b all the security fixes and other kind of performance improvements by hands : and there are also other kind of improvements made by other projects like tremfusion and XreaL.

I've proposed also this on OA-forum so to have an engine tree to be regularly improved without waiting ioquake3 "developers" and mantained separately by the gamelogic
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Falkland
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

OA lovers are not the only ones tring to compete with the imminet QL full launch :

- A new defrag major version was released yesterday (1.92 )
- Today was released a minor update (1.92.01)

As the latest corkscrew and freezetag binaries , defrag 1.91.xx series was coded around q3 1.29h ... The new version was coded around q3 1.32

I've posted on OA forum the idea of coding freezetag and corkscrew around OAX or at least around q3 1.32 too , so to make this mod fully compatible with OA

A better work could be to have all FreezeTag and Corkscrew gameplay directly coded into OAX and selectable like Elimination , Domination and the other game mode.

Anyway , as I tried to explain in a prev reply , tring to compete with QL on its level is prohibitive at the moment ... and I've also explained why.

Unless all or most of the the Q3-ish game developers will try to collaborate much more and exchange experiences/code lines/ideas ...


Last edited by Falkland on Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:43 pm; edited 2 times in total
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kernel_panic
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

The thing is that the most obvious changes that most (experienced, at least) players want are not great changes. Removing the shit weapons, the shit models, THE SHIT maps, and making sure that the protocol doesn't change from version to version would've make wonders; or at least, it would've avoided the player fragmentation and migration seen during the last year.

Then you have not-so-difficult things to do like adding new voices and textures. The good thing is that in a non totalitarian environment all this would be much easier and people would be more willing to contribute. I'm convinced that small contributions could boost the feeling of the game (new menu, sane default options, in-game documentation, demos, new announcer voices...).

But for the fork to work you want to have some plans on top of the quick and obvious things and on top of the stuff that gets added slowly by random contributors. You want to gain some momentum amongst a bunch of 2D artists/mappers, coders and obviously players. Without this I don't think it's worth doing it. I don't know what plans you have, but I find some of the things mentioned very interesting, like that of having a central pk3 repository.


Quote::
i edited my previous post because i got carried away by ranting.. and this is supposed to be a constructive topic right?

Many of us decided to ignore the crappiness related to OA and kept going as if everything was OK. The others (less hypocritical, more hot-blooded or less interested in the game) left long ago, I suppose. I'm not surprised you can't avoid ranting as soon as you open your mouth.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Joki wrote:

...
nailgun, chaingun and bfg can be disabled using cvars serversided
...

That's true , but since they're not used/appreciated , removing them will save lines of code , precious space for models , sounds , animation ... etc
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

... and by "alternative maps", i was of course referencing to such master pieces as Aggressor-evenShittier, DeadSimple or JokiCTF2.

AAAAAAAH!! TIMEWEIRDNESS!! THIS SHOULD BE RECENT!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

Joki wrote:



a_clown wrote:

-the std maps are so crappy( i dont mean pulctf and so on...these are great ),

DIDNT YOU FORGET SOMETHING THERE??? :s :ops: :| :down:

a_clown wrote:

-balanced weapons: i dont think this game needs proxmines, nailgun, chaingun and bfg? Lightning-gun in oa is overpowered, should be fixed. We could play a bit around with other things too( railgun damage down? )

nailgun, chaingun and bfg can be disabled using cvars serversided. and lightning gun works exactly the same as in q3 afaik: 10 "shots" per second, 8 damage each.


Ah sorry Joki, u know i mean maps like oa_bases, dm and oa_ctf2 and so on...so crappy maps!

the LG works the same as in Q3 thats true...but it feels so overpowered( because its unlagged? )

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chiquita
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Redo OA? Reply with quote

So OA has closed it's doors. I see the web site is down?

I'm a q3 player and remember that not everyone has a good enough connection to play qlive.

I do have a modular version of OA which contains all the replacement q3 textures, the models are half the size (256 instead of 512 - no diff is noticed) The OA maps are removed with the textures and every map is packed as a pk3.

I thought that would have been more appealing for map makers so they could update their stuff.. then a new version could contain the paks.

The file size of the game is 150mb or so. Nothing has been changed except for additional PMS support, the code was implemented for me and still have it. I have most of the skins with pm support too. Most people would have seen/used them on osp/xbattle.

I did put a few of my own sounds in, but the didnt change any code - I used the normal client/server bins because the mod i was using had pm support anyway.

If it's any use let me know. I just tried it on one server on prot 68. The only thing is the maps might be outdated.
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