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Brainworks
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SnooSnoo
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

GrosBedo wrote:
Yes, the guy doesn't cheat. Its bots don't fake movements, they really do.

The rule of not accusing ppl of cheating without evidence applys to everyone. Please refrain from that.

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Falkland
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

SnooSnoo wrote:

The rule of not accusing ppl of cheating without evidence applys to everyone. Please refrain from that.

Yeah , but ppl able to read the evidence is another good theme to debate ... anyway ...
there's someone showing evidence continuosily , but the same "someone" is still allowed to play and ( that's very interesting ) to write on public forums like oa site and oa-clan league and the most important thing , someone so cheek saying to not cheat at all ... but no-one seems to care of it.

And before it will explode another nuclear bomb here , I MUST SAY that I'm not talking about anyone of RN or that is usual to interact/write here.
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chiquita
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Joined: Sep 01, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

ok lets look at the evidence.. you recorded demo/s right? :)
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Falkland
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

chiquita wrote:
ok lets look at the evidence.. you recorded demo/s right? :)

I'm tired of recording demos of the same player : (edit : removed the link to a previous post of mine ... noway to get me in trap again ) ... even walls know that now .
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TMM
Bananaphone
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Joined: Aug 17, 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

I never saw the demo, send it to me in PM, if it's really a cheater I will be sure he gets banned.

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Joki
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

Show me the demo, i bet you are just "seeing things, that are not there".... Actually Falkland, you accused at least 6 players of cheating so far, me included. So i have real doubts in your sense of judgement to be honest.

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TMM
Bananaphone
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

Well, you never know in 'the boy who cried wolf' the wolf DID eventually come :)

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GrosBedo
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

SnooSnoo wrote:
GrosBedo wrote:
Yes, the guy doesn't cheat. Its bots don't fake movements, they really do.

The rule of not accusing ppl of cheating without evidence applys to everyone. Please refrain from that.

Uh... We are talking about a coder making a mod, not a player. By cheating I meant "faking intelligence by giving the bot an unfair advantage" (such as the one cited for strafe jumping). Its bots really do strafe jumping, they aren't doing a fake movement of camera and the code automatically give them more speed.

I've read almost wholly its blog, so I know that its main goal is to make a more human-like intelligence for bots WITHOUT touching any of Quake 3 code, and this is why it took him so much time to make it (and it's still not finished), because there are flaws inside the Quake 3 code. But this means that he can't "cheat" since he has to do a standalone code, no way to tweak the physics engine ;)

On the subject, I really advise you to read its blog if you are interested by artifical intelligence, or simply in Quake 3 mods. He makes very interesting articles, and not only about games (see articles about religion and logical thinking).

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kernel_panic
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

Quote::
On the subject, I really advise you to read its blog if you are interested by artifical intelligence, or simply in Quake 3 mods. He makes very interesting articles, and not only about games (see articles about religion and logical thinking).

Link, please.

Quote::
Well, you never know in 'the boy who cried wolf' the wolf DID eventually come :)

Ha! I didn't know there was an english version for that story!

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TMM
Bananaphone
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

Quote::

Quote::
Well, you never know in 'the boy who cried wolf' the wolf DID eventually come :)

Ha! I didn't know there was an english version for that story!

I think there's one for every language, it's a little story to teach kids :)

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Falkland
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

kernel_panic wrote:


Link, please.


Read ,please ... 'cause I've included in the first post both links to the project site and to the developer's blog :)
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kernel_panic
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

But...of course! Now I get what all this really is about.

Gentleman, we are talking about the ultimate Turing test, the most diabolic version of them all. The poor would-be intelligent computer does not only have to answer correctly a bunch of tricky questions like "tell me about your mother" and "what do you feel when you turn upside down a tortoise". Now it has to do that while trying to frag as many players as possible playing as a human!

Pretty tough, if you ask me. One downside is that human players will be biased to think the computer is a computer if it easily beats the hell out of them. On the other hand, as soon as the computer adquires enough complexity to have feelings it's not gonna care as much about the outcome of the test as about that of the match, and therefore it's gonna fail the test cause it'll wipe the floor with the human players.

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chiquita
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

Would the bots mouse sometimes fly off the end of the desk when firing a rocket like mine does? I wonder if their mouse feet come off mid-game and move stupidly in one spot while trying to fix it.

Most players want to shoot like a bot, so wouldn't an intelligent bot realise it's a stupid idea to act like a human? :) 'to hell with this human nonsense, i'm gonna pwn everything'
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Falkland
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

You have both ( kernel_panic , chiquita ) missed the target , the meaning of the project and of that post on the blog .

Your replies appear ( to my eyes ) so obvious ... at least as the answer of who's afraid to be replaced by "someone else" or to not have anymore his/her daily coffee.

but to continue on your line , I could tell at least two reason for which brainworks are still preferable, from my point of view.

1. They are bots ... so I'm quite SURE they have still advantages while playing.

2. After playing against them ... ALL ... will finish after I shutdown the program and I can go quitly to sleep.
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chiquita
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Brainworks Reply with quote

Thanks for clarifying :)
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